Whats so bad about the UI????

[Hugh Manatee]

ok first some OT BS:

Ok, this is what we mean when we talk about hostility toward anyone who complains. We were having a calm, rational, objective discussion of issues, and then Hugh chimes in with personal attacks.
How is this justified? Why is this violation of forum rules tolerated?

Reason #1 why I very rarely post in this forum anymore.
This, friends, is what I meant when I said before that I sense a growing hostility here toward those of us who politely voice complaints.

Who did I personally attack? What forum rule did I violate? Lastly I don't have to justify anything because it was meant as a crude joke to make a very valid point.... Seriously get a sense of humor people - Removed by Moderator - just because some forum trolls go blasting off on certain people or topics doesn't mean you have to lose all sense of humor, even if I was a bit crude, and maintain some sort of "Masterpiece Forum" stuck up ettiquet. For someone who "rampantly uses asterisks" I thought at least someone would get it and chuckle....


Now on topic, I say again, there is no reason short of being handicapped or having your "off" hand occupied by some other task such as self gratification or gorging onself while sedentary(some apparently on tea, scones or biscits instead of cheese powder coated, fried nummies), that you shouldn't play or work with both hands on a PC. Take Blender, people who first see it tend to call it one of the most bizar or "cumbersome" UIs ever, unabe to find menus or buttons for stuff unlike milkshape, anim8or, or others, till they get to know that you actually have to use both hands to use it well. Every manual and tutorial starts with "have one hand on the mouse the other on the keyboard", and it works. Stuff gets done faster in blender because of it's keyboard oriented interface. you can get to the stuff with the mouse if you have to, but the keyboard is faster. Once I learned this I started memorizing hotkeys for Civ2, Alpha Centauri, Guild Wars, SEIV, SE3, sim city, and now SEV, even FPS and flight sims. I'm telling you, stuff gets done faster with less movement of the wrists, less wear on the mouse, I don't have to hunt for icons buried in menus, info is imidiate and I can dismiss it imediately it's great. All because I'm willing to lift my left arm and reach about 2 feet in front of me. A printed list of the keys is not hard to come by and if you lack that, open the game windowed and put the list in the background. If you are capable, and don't want to lift your off arm out, then there's no excuse, you're whatever I described above. Stuborn, lazy, a "wanker" or some combo of both. I'm sorry if that's true, but it is, and if you took the good natured, if a little crude, jibe a little rough so be it, no apologies given. Play with both hands, always.

Also, atrocities I'm not sure what info the SEIV interface gave at a glance that wasn't already in a menu that the SEV doesn't, can you elaborate(IIRC they still show what facilities exist on the planets in the main system display right)? I recall the map SEIV being a bit bigger, clearer, sometimes I can't see if there are warps on an unexplored system in SEV's if I don't expand it, and I'm not sure how boarders or colors get marked but otherwise it's still functional.

[Atrocities]

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[Possum]

OK, let's address the concept that I am somehow reluctant to use both hands.

I spent most of 6 years playing FPS games, (that's First-Person Shooters, to those who aren't familiar with the term)

TF (Team Fortress) was my game-type of choice. TF is a series of mods for various engines. Essentially, the TF concept is a class-based variant of CTF (Capture the Flag), involving 9 classes (Soldier, Demoman, Heavy Weapons Guy, Scout, Spy, Flametrooper, Medic, Engineer, and Sniper). I led and co-led several different clans. I played in two different leagues, albeit not at the same time.

League play involved 2-4 hours of practice 3 nights a week, and then a game on Sunday (usually).

I list all this only to give you some idea of the dedication and seriousness I brought to this pursuit, and also the hours committed.

Nobody ever, ever, ever played any FPS game competitively without using both hands. It can't be done. Period, end of sentence, end of paragraph.

I spent years using both hands furiously, to the point where I wrapped my left wrist with an Ace bandage before playing, simply to limit range of motion, and avoid RMI injuries.

There were weeks when I spent 25-30 hours or more playing TF. With both hands.

Am I making my point here? Your "use both hands" routine is so much hogwash.

[Atrocities]

I use both hands all the time in ALL of my games.

I learned to use the Key Board by playing Freespace.

[Hugh Manatee]

Ok, obviously you are willing to use the keyboard if you like the game enough, then why all the reluctance from everyone in using the keyboard for space empires(which requires MUCH less reflexes and stress then a FPS)? It seems that you agree with me, I'm basically saying the hotkey commands make the UI much smoother, and there's no good reason not to use them in this sort of game where there's a large amount of commands to execute you need at least 3 mouse strokes and clicks as opposed to 1 key command. You seem to be saying the keyboard is essential too, where's our conflict?

[Suicide Junkie]

Better hotkeys would go a long way to encouraging that...

The commands that are most often used need the first choice of hotkey.
O for load? Psh. I don't even know what the hotkey for drop is... certainly not D though.

BTW, does anybody know where the default hotkeys are defined so that I can fix them?

[DeadMilkman]

Personally, the only thing I really dislike about the UI is that the screen does not center on your current selection when using the Next/Previous ship buttons. I have lost count of how many times I have sent a ship way off course because I thought a different ship was selected.

(OT)
Heyya Possum, I'm an old TFer myself (from qwtf days). Went by [FC]Lee Harvey Oswald back then, was a founding member of Fatal Cure, and Clan Doomsday. I do indeed miss those days, before cheats became such a common thing in online gaming. Now I am considering if I want to try TF2 when it finally comes out.

[Possum]

DeadMilkman said:
Personally, the only thing I really dislike about the UI is that the screen does not center on your current selection when using the Next/Previous ship buttons. I have lost count of how many times I have sent a ship way off course because I thought a different ship was selected.

(OT)
Heyya Possum, I'm an old TFer myself (from qwtf days). Went by [FC]Lee Harvey Oswald back then, was a founding member of Fatal Cure, and Clan Doomsday. I do indeed miss those days, before cheats became such a common thing in online gaming. Now I am considering if I want to try TF2 when it finally comes out.

Hey hey, buddy! I'm pretty sure I remember you! You know, actually, the name Dead Milkman sounds damn familiar, you sure you never used that as a TF handle?

I played QWTF, yeah. I was a member of the "Cult of CZ", as canalzone was my favorite map.

Then I played TFC, then Q3F, and finally ETF.

Do you remember an old QWTF map called Colony, where you had to collect the canisters? How about Aztec1?

[Baron Grazic]

Suicide Junkie said:
O for load? Psh. I don't even know what the hotkey for drop is... certainly not D though.

'K' for drop. The only way I remember it is Drop (K) is below Pick up (O)
The hot key that gets me, is 'Move ship to Way point n'. Putting this back to SE IV method would save me a lot of trouble.

[Fyron]

Baron Grazic said:
'K' for drop. The only way I remember it is Drop (K) is below Pick up (O)

So QWERTY-centric; I feel disenfranchised! My o and k keys are 3 apart!

Putting this back to SE IV method would save me a lot of trouble.

Easier done than said. Just go into the Controls configuration in the main menu.