Helheim Superpower!

[Gandalf Parker]

I said it was possible. Whether or not its preferable I think lies more in what a persons preferred methods are. An advantage of stealth is not getting caught. You can pull back into provinces they dont own. It helps to tie up alot of their manpower hunting you or their gold buying PD. Also Pangea, if you use Pans, can toss attacking maenads as they move stealthy thru an area.

[MythicalMino]

any tips for C'tis vs. Helheim?

[UninspiredName]

I've heard good things about Poison Slingers, but I've never actually been in the situation myself.

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
I said it was possible. Whether or not its preferable I think lies more in what a persons preferred methods are. An advantage of stealth is not getting caught. You can pull back into provinces they dont own. It helps to tie up alot of their manpower hunting you or their gold buying PD. Also Pangea, if you use Pans, can toss attacking maenads as they move stealthy thru an area.

I don't think that "personally preferred methods" has any role here. I'm consider the situation when Caelum player act efficiently and not trying to role-play and the opponent is trying to employ the best possible counter-strategy.

You're correct that steath allows you to escape, but it cost you a turn (which means your effective number of raiding party is halved while you still pay full upkeep) and when you attack you always face Caelum's raiding squad (or worse) which means you suffer losses and getting replacement back to the front takes time. Caelum has no need to hunt your stealthy raiders, they just take all provinces. There will be accidental clashes with your raiders and this kind of attrition is in Caelum's favour. In a few turns you'll find yourself with about as many provinces as the number of your stealth raider parties and this number will keep shrinking...

[Gandalf Parker]

Not if you use Pans

[Maltrease]

Gandalf, I think you would really like Caelum. Since you like to avoid the big confrontations and attack where it is unexpected (Pangea tactics you use). That strategy is Caelum's best (in my opinion).

[Gandalf Parker]

I do enjoy Caelum, especially for large maps. Up to about mid-game I tend to preach a "measles" strategy. Jump over the hard indepts and spot yourself across the map in 3-province jumps. You can hit human players early in the game. And you can quickly move armies forward. But for them to hit you back they have to get thru one of yours, 2 indepts, one of yours, 2 indepts. That gives you a great advantage for building up PD and replacment armies.

Of course my answer to that strategy is my Pangaean armies since I only have to knock out one link at a time in the chain.

[alexti]

Gandalf Parker said:
Not if you use Pans

Do you want to demonstrate your strategy in duel?

[Gandalf Parker]

Whats to demonstrate? A Pan can move thru an area and "attack" it without losing its stealth. It drops maenads in that province and they attack. That makes it fairly efficient as a pain-in-the-back-provinces.

It also is great as an assassin since you dont have to keep testing the province to see whats left and if you can take it. Each turn you get an assassination, followed by a maenad attack.

The drawback of course is their cost. But for a total-stealth strategy it has a good function.

[Graeme Dice]

Gandalf Parker said:
Whats to demonstrate? A Pan can move thru an area and "attack" it without losing its stealth. It drops maenads in that province and they attack. That makes it fairly efficient as a pain-in-the-back-provinces.

Maenads without a commander will rout on the very first turn. They will have absolutely no effect unless your opponent does not purchase a single point of province defense. If that's the case, then you'd be better off using scouts, since you could capture 17.5 provinces for the same cost as a single Pan.

Actually that's not quite correct, they will have some effect. They'll raise unrest by about 2 per attack, so you have a 350 gold spy that's about one fifth as effective for ten times the price.

It also is great as an assassin since you dont have to keep testing the province to see whats left and if you can take it. Each turn you get an assassination, followed by a maenad attack.

By the time you've set up a blood economy and research to get black hearts there will be no independent provinces left to use them on. Every province will have a permanent province defense commander that is completely immune to assasination and will prevent an unlimited number of non-magical, non-mindless troops from routing.

The drawback of course is their cost. But for a total-stealth strategy it has a good function.

The other drawback, of course, is that it has absolutely no effect on a province with one province defense.