SAM Question

[Marcello]

The issue is not precisely that there are missiles with the same name but different stats. The issue is that there are different missiles whose stats seems to be written using different lines of reasoning. Example

1) OOB 11 (Russia), weapon 142 (9M311 Tunguska), various users (unit 405,406 etc.)
WH size: 9
HE penetration: 9
HE kill: 9

In the real world is a radar guided missile with a 9 Kg warhead, supposedly with a fairly elaborate arrangement for causing maximum splinters

2) OOB 6 (France), weapon 242 (Roland II SACP), various users (unit 55,57 etc.)
WH size: 8
HE penetration: 4
HE kill: 4

In the real world is a radar guided missile with a 6.5 Kg warhead, supposedly with an elaborate arrangement for causing splinters, albeit it may not be as sophisticated as the one used by the SA-19.

3) OOB 11 (Russia), weapon 143 (9M313 Igla-1), various users (unit 409,758 etc.)
WH size: 4
HE penetration: 8
HE kill: 8

In the real world it is a Igla series MANPAD. The stats seem to be out of the line with the other Igla (like weapon 75 and 132) which have HE kill/HE penetration around 3-4.

Now, I get the suspicion that in the first case someone read 9 Kg and just put 9 in all the parameters. Whatever it was the missile seems reasonably lethal when it hits (test against USAF F-16s in 2007), as probably it should.The Roland 2 seems unable to bring down F-16s even with three hits on the same plane (tested mutiple times). This got me curious about the various warhead parameters and how they were calculated.

[Marcello]

"SAM's have never really been an issue with anyone that I'm aware"

I suspect that is because people do not buy them often in first place (I mean, something more than a few MANPADS) and their effects are more difficult to evaluate. Therefore discrepancies are not going to be noticed. It took a lot of tests before I figured out how ineffective the Roland 2 actually was.

[Marcello]

If nothing else is available is it at least possible to know, in general terms, what the game does with those three parameters? For example what is more important: WH size or HE penetration/HE kill?

[DRG]

All three are interrelated and each affect the game for different reasons. For the purposes of knocking down an aircraft HEK and HEP have a greater affect but WH size is used for many things, resupply from a ammo dump for one though that isn't a main issue it is still and issue so cannot be ignored. You want to get the WH size not too big and not too small. Sound , for some weapons is keyed to WH size but I'm not sure if that factors in for SAMs

The thing to do is build some test units in the game and then set up a test range and see how this all interacts. I know this sounds a bit vague but as I said, SAM's were set up years ago and I wasn't directly involved in that part of the process and until yesterday nobody had asked about them and I cannot find any notes specific to them and ATM I'm busy with the WW2 patch.

When I have more time to dig into this I will and put a better answer together. I'm just not in a position ATM to drop what I'm doing.

However, FWIW here is a data base dump of all 646 SAM's in the game ordered by WH size. As I've said, this hasn't been touched really for years so I have no doubt you will find errors where the same missle is different from one nation to another. These are things we fix when we discover a problem. However, if may help you with your question

Don

[Suhiir]

I don't waste points on man-portable (and many SP) SAMs, they may on occasion actually hit an aircraft and once in a blue moon shoot one down but for the most part they very VERY rarely effect a bomb run. I actually like it when the AI wastes a bunch of points on one pass aircraft.