Autocannon ammo loadout of AFVs

Shan · #1 March 2nd, 2007, 01:16 PM

Another one - the German Luchs reconnaissance vehicle (Units 59, 68, 69) all carry 10+5 shots of 20mm ammo - this vehicle carries between 800 and 1000 shots, according to various online sources... so in my opinion another quite serious case...

I'm wondering about what other people think about this issue - please, post your comments! (btw - to avoid misunderstandings with the Admins: I know that if you don't reply this doesn't mean you're not reading this - but I'd like to hear what you think about this as well, and maybe you can tell us how the ammo points were originally calculated - the way like kikka says sounds reasonable, so it must be somehow like that)

DRG · #2 March 2nd, 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Shan said:(btw - to avoid misunderstandings with the Admins: I know that if you don't reply this doesn't mean you're not reading this - but I'd like to hear what you think about this as well, and maybe you can tell us how the ammo points were originally calculated - the way like kikka says sounds reasonable, so it must be somehow like that)

Did Andy not already answer you on that in the second post on this thread.....???

10 shots per "burst" sounds about right but IDK for certain as there is no mention of that in the notes I still have related to OOB design, ( which does NOT mean there wasn't a formula used...just that I don't have a record of it ) I was not directly involved in that. Setting up the autocannon loadouts was something done YEARS ago then forgotten about because nobody complined about this or asked questions about it ( that I'm aware of )until you started this thread. Some vehicles loads would have been guesses made as it is even now not always possible to find sources with CONSISTENT ammo load stats ( " this vehicle carries between 800 and 1000 shots" is a good example of this ..what is it really 800...... or 1000? and what mix of ammo ?...... If I guess now-- guess what????... someone comes by in three or four or five years and asks where I got that info from........and then I get to start this all over again )

If someone wants to post some good HARD data on the actual ammo loads of autocannon armed vehicles I will be glad to look at it. Try to find something other than Wikipedia or pmulcahy for the source.

Don

DRG · #3 March 2nd, 2007, 06:14 PM

Attached are two lists with all 485 ground units in the game that use weapon class 19--"autocannons".

One list is ordered by nation and one by the unit names ( so all units named "BTR-80" are in one block together regardless of nation )

Each list shows the HE, AP, Sabot and HEAT loads ( the last two only when the weapon is in weapon slot one but that would be mostly the case with thes unit classes )

The unit name, nation , UnitSlot, Year available and Weapon Name are all listed

Different nations may have different ammo loads for the same unit. That's an OOB designer decision based on info he may have picked up someplace ( the AMX-10's have a lot of different set ups for it's "32" shots )

Let me know what you come up with for these...

Don

Shan · #4 March 2nd, 2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

DRG said:
If someone wants to post some good HARD data on the actual ammo loads of autocannon armed vehicles I will be glad to look at it. Try to find something other than Wikipedia or pmulcahy for the source.

Don

That's exactly what I'd like to encourage people to do - come up with good sources so you'll have to look at it, and that is also where I had to say: Sorry for my bad sources - (maybe a longer internet research could turn out better results but it will all be open-source stuff) but even though I know the facts are like I'm saying, I agree that you (the team) will need some better backup sources to take this serious and modify the OOBs - provided you have the time and willingness to do so and can agree on what formula to apply... a major task, no doubt.
In my opinion, finding good sources is just a smaller matter that can eventually be solved by the right people who have this information, and I'm sure there must be some players in this forum who do, it 'just' needs to be collected and implemented - the main point is that I still believe that I'm right with my assumption that these inconsistencies exist and something should be done. I also chose to name only a few vehicles as a starting point and in my opinion it's quite obvious that something isn't correct with them.

Anyway - thanks for looking at this and providing the spreadsheets, Don - I hope this will result in something constructive.

Shan

Shan · #5 March 28th, 2007, 11:34 AM

Another one, IDK if this one has been mentioned before - but there must obviously be a mistake, apart from the under-dotation, as theunit has no AP ammo -

Yugoslavia: Unit 540 - M-80AK - new IFV version with 30mm cannon - currently only has 9x HE ammo, so AP or Sabot whatsoever

DRG · #6 March 28th, 2007, 03:30 PM

Previously mentioned. Already fixed

Don

narwan · #7 March 29th, 2007, 04:14 PM

Another possible candidate is the AIFV. In the dutch OB (nr 28) known as the YPR-765 PRI (unit 176 and 056), in the belgian OB (nr 27) as the AIFV-B (unit 064) and in the Turkish OB (nr 32) as the ZMA-AIFV (unit 176).

The are all basically the same vehicle with the 25mm KBA autocannon. The dutch have 9 HE and 8 AP, the belgians have 7 HE and 6 AP and the turks have 7 HE and 8 AP.
According to:
http://www.answers.com/aifv
the ammo load is 180 rounds ready ammo and 144 in reserve. That would mean that the current ammo load would reflect a 20+ round burst per shot.

Also note that the vehicles have different carrying capacities in the three OB's, 10 for the turks, 9 for the dutch (unit 056 has capacity 5), 8 for the belgians.

Narwan

Edit; looks like the turks have a different version after all with a higher carrying capacity. I'll take that issue to another thread on the AIFV.

DRG · #8 March 29th, 2007, 05:20 PM

Tell you what..... if ammo loads for autocannons on IFV's is going to be an ongoing issue that "everyone" just "has" to have fixed start ONE thread and start listing ammo loadouts by vehicle and what OOB's and unit numbers need changing and I will look at it. There is about 10 days left for this "issue" to be resolved

As for carry capacity for the "AIFV".what is it? Also Remco, you more than anyone know the potential ramifications of simply changing carry capacities without checking every unit that uses that vehicle and does it REALLY matter if one is 8 and one is 9 ? "Maybe" that reflects actual usage in each nation ? If you don't know for sure Turkey doesn't cram more troops into it than Belgium does there's no reason to change it.

Don