What is wrong with the AI?

vfb · #1 April 26th, 2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Wikd Thots said:
What part of "NO I do not want to hear that mp is the answer" do you people not understand? I HAVE played MP! I know what it is good for. And I plan to play it much more.

But I want to experiment with tactics and things without quitting an mp game as soon as I figure out that it was a bust. Or hear from the experts here "why did you do that"? I've seen some of the comments here and I don't care to play with some people until I have had a chance to experiment some more. The only alternative seems to be to listen to the trashers and do whatever they say is best.

Sorry to hear you are getting 'trashed' in MP for being noobish. If an expert was to ask me, "Why did you do that?", I wouldn't be offended. The answer is "Because I thought it would work. Did I forget to mention that I'm a noob?"

I've found that the experienced players have been willing to give me good advice. And this is even in a game where I eventually may end up as their opponent. I've also seen experienced players give out strategic advice to other players when a game they are in is being set up.

In my opinion, the AI is already good enough to get an idea whether or not your overall strategy (bless, scales, SC pretender, whatever) is broken or worth a try. And a strategy that is 'worth a try' may still be broken in MP, but there's only one way you are going to find out.

For tactical experiments, I love the Mini_v3.map and have several versions of it now for trying out tactics and simulating battles. You need to play both sides to set up the unit's battle orders correctly, of course. Edi's spreadsheets will give you all the IDs you need to set up any matchup. You can even play a full game hotseat against yourself if there's something you need to test that the Mini map won't do.

When your MP games go 'bust', you might want to just keep playing until you are dead, instead of quitting. The point of the game for me is playing, not winning. If you are expecting to win when you are playing against 8 other human players, then I think you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

If there are specific people that you do not have fun playing with, then host your own game. There's nothing wrong with telling someone you'd prefer they did not join your game, if you did not enjoy playing with them in a previous game. Keep looking and I'm sure you will find some people you can have fun playing with!

MaxWilson · #2 April 26th, 2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

vfb said:
I've found that the experienced players have been willing to give me good advice. And this is even in a game where I eventually may end up as their opponent. I've also seen experienced players give out strategic advice to other players when a game they are in is being set up.

Heh. Isn't that what this thread is all about, people wishing they could give strategic advice to their opponent (the AI) for a more challenging game?

By the way, how do you test strategies requiring spells/gems on the mini-map? Since #startspell only works for one turn you can't wait for gems to accumulate. It occurred to me just now that you could mod in a site giving lots of gems, but until now I haven't used the minimap much because of that.

-Max

Gandalf Parker · #3 April 26th, 2007, 11:11 PM

There are units that tend to show up with lots of gems. I dont remember what they are but adding them in would give you someone to snag the gems off of. You could use the All_Units game to go thru the different units and see what they show up with.

vfb · #4 April 27th, 2007, 12:10 AM

For spells I just add some researchers (which I may want in the battle anyway), set research on fast, and hit host until it's at the level I need. As long as one dominion doesn't overpower the other this is pretty safe and really doesn't take that long. Random events rare helps too.

Sombre · #5 April 27th, 2007, 12:20 AM

It would be quicker to just mod the spells so they're at 1 gem, research level 1.

vfb · #6 April 27th, 2007, 12:28 AM

I didn't think of setting spell research to 1, that's a good idea! But you might want to avoid changing the number of gems, since that will affect how the spells are cast in the battle.

Ballbarian · #7 April 27th, 2007, 12:54 AM

For what it's worth, the next version of RanDom will accomodate custom gods. I am in the middle of a test game with a set of pre made gods using builds and scales that I have seen on the forums (including Gorgzilla, a E9N4 Gorgon with 10 dominion) and it has made for a more challenging game. I created the custom god files within a set of house rules where the god for the given nation was one available to that nation and the points available were as if the god were dormant. Also, I kit the god with items that I would use on my own god, only the AI begins the game with these items (artifacts excluded). It will also be possible to include custom starting units and sites if the designer / player so chooses.

Foodstamp · #8 April 27th, 2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Ballbarian said:
For what it's worth, the next version of RanDom will accomodate custom gods. I am in the middle of a test game with a set of pre made gods using builds and scales that I have seen on the forums (including Gorgzilla, a E9N4 Gorgon with 10 dominion) and it has made for a more challenging game. I created the custom god files within a set of house rules where the god for the given nation was one available to that nation and the points available were as if the god were dormant. Also, I kit the god with items that I would use on my own god, only the AI begins the game with these items (artifacts excluded). It will also be possible to include custom starting units and sites if the designer / player so chooses.

Sounds awesome

Gandalf Parker · #9 April 27th, 2007, 01:22 AM

I was considering the comments about no-indepents on the maps. Do you end up with no army to fight to take an indept province? Of course I could blank all the provinces on a map and then assign an army to each one but the way I do it that would be pretty haphazard.

On the other hand, we could create a set for RanDom. Make province sets that said
terrain:forest
@ 3
elephants & slingers
forest archers
wolf clan

Something like that. Well basically for each terrain have a few sets of the type of army you could usually expect there. Then set RanDom for 100% fill. That way there would be no poptypes to recruit but still reasonable armies to fight.