OT: Politics

[atul]

Dominions2 forum had such a thread, but it was locked and deleted. Some highlights included one then-active poster telling me I would be better off six feet under and other hilarities. So we might want to steer away from politics.

Re: the conversation in the other thread, I got the impression it was just some people from the states throwing jokes about themselves and their countrymen, then other people from US misunderstanding the jokes to be slander and taking (sort of) offense. But YMMV.

[RamsHead]

If people don't want to post in here, they don't have to. This is just a thread for those who happen to want to talk about politics. If people start throwing around personal insults, then Shrapnel has every right to lock/delete this thread.

[Morkilus]

The Dominions forum (the only place I look) tends to have many more Europeans than the rest of the boards. I remember talking politics in the GD forum, usually about guns and 9/11, but only the Americans were chipping in.

[Foodstamp]

Gun control and the 911 terrorist attacks are an American issue, I am not surprised Americans were the ones chipping in.

Politic arguments spiral downward pretty fast. This is because neither side is totally right or wrong, and both sides value the love of their party, form of government etc. over the truth or statistics.

Rather than prescribe to a political party, or preach the merits of a particular type of government, I find it is best to look inward, know what you feel to be right or wrong and let that be your guide as far as what is good or bad legislation. Sometimes it can be difficult, because it can be hard to identify who is pulling the strings, but anytime a politician opens their mouth, just question to yourself what their true motives probably are. Doing so, you can figure out what is really going on most the time.

There is an art to taking the lies that come out of one side's mouth, and the lies that come out of the other, then using those two lies to identify the truth.

[CUnknown]

Something I wanted to mention in that other thread, so I'll do it here. I long for the USA to return to something approaching isolationism. Far from being America's problem, I think that ending our non-stop wars across the planet would be a solution to what ails us. And for what ails the rest of the world, for that matter.

[UncleYee]

More traditional hardcore wargamers tend to be wonderful people but knee-jerk conservatives. I wonder if fantasy hardcore wargamers are a more liberal-leaning bunch. What do you think?

If we are, why? Tolkien, who if I understand it denied that his writings had an overt political leanings, none the less painted a very simple black and white world. Though it had a much warmer heart, in a way LotR presents choices as simply as that 300 movie; war is the the choice of the valiant, talk of peace comes from traitors and fools. This is a very right-wing way to evaluate the world, and is still the message coming from our US President.

So maybe there's some other hidden liberal influence. What are Gary Gygax's politics like?

Or am I off-base, and fantasy wargamers are indeed as conservative as traditional wargamers? Then I'm just spinning my wheels.

[quantum_mechani]

I don't know about in general fantasy war gamers, but I'd say the dominions community is more than a little left-leaning from an american perspective. Largely, I would guess, because such a large percntage (even an majority?) are European.

There is also the fact that the Dominions setting tends to weed out the hardcore Christians.

[CUnknown]

I agree about traditional hardcore wargamers being conservative, in general. Also that fantasy gamers are more middle of the road, at least. I'm not sure where that comes from exactly, but I don't think it's Gary Gygax, although he could be liberal, for all I know. I've never recognized any political message in Gygaxs' works one way or the other. Not that it's not there, just that I haven't seen it.

[Teraswaerto]

UncleYee said:
If we are, why? Tolkien, who if I understand it denied that his writings had an overt political leanings, none the less painted a very simple black and white world. Though it had a much warmer heart, in a way LotR presents choices as simply as that 300 movie; war is the the choice of the valiant, talk of peace comes from traitors and fools. This is a very right-wing way to evaluate the world, and is still the message coming from our US President.

In Middle-earth Sauron is evil and the orcs are evil. When there are wars or killing between the free peoples (such as the civil war in Gondor, elven kinslayings during the First Age) those who want peace are not traitors or fools.

There are no orcs in the real world, and no Dark Lord. Some people may behave in bad ways, but they are still human. The same is true in Tolkien's writings, the men serving the Dark Lord (be it Sauron or Morgoth) have been coerced or deceived, the struggle is in part to free them from the darkness.

[Archonsod]

UncleYee said:
If we are, why? Tolkien, who if I understand it denied that his writings had an overt political leanings, none the less painted a very simple black and white world.

Oh, I doubt Tolkien has anything to do with it. Over here he is probably the epitome of Right Wing. Much as he may have denied it, there are several political themes in his work (such as the scouring of the shire in ROTK - written at a time when socialist/soviet rebellion was a very real danger).
As for his black & white viewpoint, I've seen that been put down to Catholicism (he's less subtle than CS Lewis, but the basic moral structure is similar).

I can see why Fantasy gamers would be considered more liberal (at least in the US) than the conservative traditional wargamers though. The whole magic and gods thing is probably a main contributary factor - the church has problems with such things, which means the more conservative Christians (over here most conservative Americans are usually seen as being Christian too, though I don't know if that's a stereotype or accurate) would likely also have an issue with such things.

Mind you, having said that I do know people who simply alter the basis of magic and similar in their games. I know of one Christian group who replaced the D&D magic system with one based on their faith (i.e. spells became 'miracles' or angelic gifts).