Guide to EA C'tis

[MaxWilson]

Slave Warriors are nice, but Elite Warriors are even better. With high attack and a long weapon, they can often repel attacks, and combined with their generally good Protection for early age they work even better for expansion than Slave Warriors. They do cost a little bit more in terms of resources, though. Personally I expand with a mix of Heavy Infantry and Elite Warriors, but I don't know if that's optimal.

I haven't found any real reason to take Production on C'tis, since even their top-line troops are resource-cheap. (10g/15r looks expensive for the Heavy Infantry until you compare it to LA Agartha's 30g/37r Blindfighter.) But hey, if you've got it, flaunt it--your main limitations in expanding will then be producing enough commanders to lead your armies. Fortunately C'tis starts out with two army commanders (because it has no scouts). Eight provinces by the end of the first year is still kind of slow; what's happening?

I did a quick run on a random map with the settings you describe (F5E5 awake Scorpion King, Dom 5, scales as described). I avoided hiring mercenaries even though that speeds up expansion because I get the idea you don't do that (and it's kind of a cheap tactic vs. the AI).

Turn 1: Build a shaman, whole bunch of elite warriors. Set taxes to 130% in home province, patrol with one army, lizard lord becomes a Prophet, Scorpion King researches Evocation. End with 150 gold in the bank.

Turn 2: Set taxes back to 100% in home province; send starting army w/ EWs to conquer a small nearby province. Buy another shaman and 10 Elite Warriors. (I'll probably build 30 and then set out conquering.) Keep researching with the SK and shaman. (I really have no idea what to do with an awake pretender, since he doesn't have magic yet and I don't think he can solo indies.) End w/ 403 in the treasury.

Turn 3: Buy 1 PD in newly-conquered province. New resources from conquered province allow me to build 13 EWs this time. Send 1st army out to conquer another province (swamp, so few resources expected), w/ support from Scorpion King. (Need 9 more RP to reach Evoc-1, and the shamans can supply 10. Leave SK unscripted so he will probably cast Fire Darts, which will be researched by the time battle starts.) End w/ 478 in the bank.

Turn 4: Newly-conquered province had gold and silver mines (+160 gold), plus 67 resources. Very strange for a swamp, but lucky. We took that province with 4 losses (out of army of 28), so I'll have my prophet meet us with reinforcements in the next province (23 EWs, all that's been produced so far) while I build another 19 in the home province. (By the time the prophet gets back there will be 38 EWs waiting, my second expansion army). Build a shaman, too, of course. (Build a lizard lord/commander when necessary to lead an army, but otherwise a shaman.)

Turn 5: Lost 3 units in most recent battle, so with reinforcements army #1 is in good shape. Build 24 or so EWs in the home province, and a shaman. Avoiding a province of barbarians, I'll send army #1 to attack a bunch of deer tribe warriors while my prophet heads home. End treasury 628. Four turns have passed so far and I've conquered 3 provinces.

Turn 6: Conquered another province with army #1, minimal losses. Prophet collects army #2 (44 EWs), sets out to conquer the couple of remaining provinces next to my capital. At the capital, I switch to building chariots instead of EWs. Gold in bank 515.

Turn 7: Army #2 took moderate casualties (9/44) taking an archer province. I probably should be playing more carefully--I didn't use any archer decoys. Income is 701, treasury is 613 after buying another 8 or 9 chariots to go with the 7 already produced. It's fall and I own 7 provinces, and should be conquering 1 or 2 per turn from here on out.

Turn 8: Archer decoys did reduce my losses in conquering a jaguar tribe warrior province and archer/militia province, although maybe I should have used two because my decoy for army #2 got a limp from an arrow and got outrun by the rest of the army (7 losses total). Army #1 is doing fine, no losses this turn, and the SK has started casting Flare (reached Evoc-2) but has a minimal impact on battle. I've got a lizard heir sitting in the capital with 17 chariots, ready to start expanding in a third direction (only I'm on a map edge so I really don't have another direction, may have to waste some turns moving to a frontier instead of attacking) and have 1252 in the bank before purchasing anything, and 762 income from 9 provinces (including my capital). Since I don't really have any need for research just yet, I might detail some of my shamans to site search while another begins a fort at a choice location.

Curses on the pretender: avoid lizard man provinces. They can, and like to, cast Curse. Most other provinces don't seem to cast Curse, even ones that have access to Death magic for Spirit Curse.

-Max

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Oh, I certainly agree Elite Warriors are nice, and better in combinations.

But when I had a little save snafu, I didn't recruit till turn 2, or expand to turn 3. With over 1200 in the bank and few resources available, even if I had conquered, Slave Warriors are excellent. A few more resources? 2 or 9? Thats an 4 fold difference. So, that one team led by a common indie commander w 40 slave warriors took out around 2 or 3 provinces on its own. The last two were brought in with the assistance of a half-strength elite warrior squad, but when I picked the targets carefully, the slave warriors were quite effective in a pinch, and didn't suffer anywhere near my expected casulties.

So, yeah, a team of slave warriors doesn't match up to elites, even counting the resource difference. But given the opportunity (extra gold, around 480), the need (behind a bit), and the targets (farmlands expect some fiscal return and no cavalary or heavy infantry- i waited until the elites were ready for those), they make an excellent indie fighting force with a minimal expenditure of time. Given how, of course, they are somewhat pricy, they're not a strategy to factor in at before you start a game. They are, however, highly useful as something other than cannon fodder under specific circumstances. Better yet, their strategic speed of booth slave and elite allows for coordination of reinforcements than is available with heavies.

[SelfishGene]

When playing single player, or against secondary armies of human players early in the game, consider adding a company of Runners to your arsenal.

I used to look at every stat except speed, and wrote off Runners as cost-inefficient. But by the time the enemy army breaks, the Runners are there to chase and kill many of them before they manage to escape.

[MaxWilson]

Good point about the resources; I was thinking in terms of gold as the major limiting factor. I like Ramshead's point about using heavier forces as a decoy; these could be either Heavy Infantry or City Guards (for mapmove 2).

-Max

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Oh... Good point, SelfishGene. Heh. Show no quarter. I'm not used to thinking mercilessly enough, but the enemy troops are loyal enough its now or later.

So, do you do anything in particular to keep them from rushing into battle too soon, or do you give them no special treatment, just flanking or whatnot?

That's an interesting read, MaxWilson. It'll probably be quite enlightening when its not a work break or 3:30 in the morning. I'll definetly read that 8 turn report again. Oh, and yep. It was a lizardmen independent that cursed me right away.

Do you have any particular strategy for getting astral gems (If I'm completely opposed to an astral/rainbow pretender?) It seems almost entirely useless to send shamans around searching. It's gone much easier on my attention span to convert five to ten nature/death gems into astral, than cast the ritual monthly. But if its best simply to reallocate all my shamans and have em search a good portion all at once, I'll give that a try too.

Oh... this might go without saying for more advanced players (but I'm a n00b), but despite being strictly land-dwellers, the C'tis nation does surprisingly well at expanding into the sea. Certainly, many nations can do better, and not just the sea-dwelling ones... But you have ready access to swarms of undead. And while zombies make poor fishies, they don't need to breathe, either. The enchantment path will let you ritually summon skeletons and undead mages pretty soon.

So don't discount sea expansion just because you don't have amphibious troops, water magic, and haven't found a province that offers them. You can get fifty undead in the water by turn ten (does that add up properly? I can get the gems, but the research?), and you'll probably be able to find some entry point that doesn't need fifty undead. However, you can get a lab underwater, and just imagine swarms of undead and shamblers attacking the enemy from their rear flanks. Probably won't be that glorious, but the AI can overlook a small group of water provinces, and when the enemy's pretendder and capital are right at a convenient checkpoint blocking off a section of the map... go around? Or at least, just don't stall for time when your borders meet, expand to new frontiers. So... is this a good tactic?

I've only gone as far as using undead to attck an underwater province- successfully. But I haven't gone on to capitilizing it yet. I'll do that tomorrow. And report on whether I'm full of it, onto something, or stating something completely obvious to anyone but a n00b like me.

[MaxWilson]

You usually get astral gems from astral and nature sites, both of which can be found by shamans. Not all, true, but it's worth sending them out. Still, it depends on luck, and you may end up getting most of your astral gems in some games by finding a good supply of water gems (with your Sauromancers or mercenaries or indy mages) and banging out clams of pearls.

You know, I've never been all that good at expanding into the sea, in spite of the fact that sea provinces tend to be fairly rich. I'll do water as LA Agartha because umbrals rock, but as C'tis I would miss my Cloud of Death underwater. In the past I've typically waited to expand into the sea until I find a province of ickies or kappas. Report on whether your zombie strategy works well; I suppose C'tis is also well-suited to skelly spamming underwater. My problem with underwater zombies is that they've got an attack of 3 and a defense of 1 or something.

-Max

[thejeff]

Shamans can cast Arcane probing and it only takes 4 non-astral gems to cast. I'd do that until I found some astral income and then it's self-sustaining.

[MaxWilson]

True, but shamans are also cheap, so manual searching doesn't hurt much. As always, manual searching vs. spells depends on tradeoffs between gold (mage-time) and gems.

-Max

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

"I avoided hiring mercenaries even though that speeds up expansion because I get the idea you don't do that (and it's kind of a cheap tactic vs. the AI)."

Actually, I do tend to hire mercs (not at the start, unless they're an unexpensive mage) but because I'm curious whats available. I don't hire most until my second year.

"Set taxes to 130% in home province," Why 130%? Why not 200%?

"I really have no idea what to do with an awake pretender, since he doesn't have magic yet and I don't think he can solo indies.)" I go with 10 city guards, 30 light infantry, and my SK. Until he got lizard shaman cursed, he wasn't in much danger (I am careful around cavalry and archers, though). He's not too impressive in combat yet (though his protection and attack is nice). But what's really a big help is his fear. Even at +0, it cuts down on friendly casualties quite a bit, in a fair fight.

"Turn 3: Buy 1 PD in newly-conquered province." Only one? So, is it just for the pd commander then?

"Turn 4: Newly-conquered province had gold and silver mines (+160 gold), plus 67 resources. Very strange for a swamp, but lucky."

Nice. More comments later.

[MaxWilson]

I find mercs are most useful at the start. 150 gp Brave Breakers can take 3-4 indy provinces before they fall apart, for instance, although you might get more or less depending on luck. Combine them with 30 gp Victor's Villains to extend their lifespan. Usually at the very beginning I'm production-limited more than gold-limited, and a merc company can make the difference between taking 4 turns to conquer all the provinces adjacent to my capital and doing it in 2 turns.

130% instead of 200% because I couldn't remember how good C'tis was at patrolling. My goal is to increase income for a turn without building up any residual unrest that will tie up the patrolling army for the next turn, when I'll need it for expansion. That is, either I'd have to accept the income hit from higher unrest, keep my army on patrolling, or else lower taxes. None of those is desirable, but if I set taxes at 130% or 140% (more for some nations, e.g. Caelum) I can get a turn of "free" income and still have my army usable for expansion on turn 2. Technically I *could* expand on turn 1, but I'd be doing it blindly, so I want my army to be doing something useful while it's hanging out waiting for the initial scouting reports.

I'm surprised the fear helps, since you have to be fairly close for it to work. I guess you're sending him into melee, which I tend to avoid because I hate getting afflictions on a non-recuperating/non-immortal pretender. Just a quirk of mine.

Yeah, 1 PD for the commander. Basically, if someone/something conquers a province I just want to be able to watch the battle. It's generally not worth it to me to buy a bunch of PD early on just in case a random barbarian horde drops on me; just take it back with an army. It does, however, help to know exactly how big the horde is and that's what the 1 PD gets me.

One thing that I didn't do in that test game that I should have done, is to built a High Priest instead of a Lizard Heir to lead my third army (IIRC on turn 7). C'tis has relatively low morale, and so having an extra caster for Sermon of Courage never hurts. Especially with chariots, because even though they don't usually break, when they do they trample your own forces. If I had extra gold I might buy a Lizard King instead of a High Priest, because Smiting can make a surprising amount of difference in combat vs. indies.

-Max