LA Atlantis, another thread looking for tips

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Hmm.... things not to do as LA Atlantis, unless you're looking to make your opponent die of laughter.

1). Cast stoneskin on your Frost Father pretender with his 25 chill. It's rather embarrassing to have your super fall unconscious during a critical battle, after about four rounds. He will be affected by his own chill. It might have worked combined with a ring of frost. But thank god it happened to me in SP.

2). Get a Snow Captain with Heroic Agility (increased attack, def, and ambidextrousness), prophetize him, give him two Ice Swords. So far, so good. Now you just need to let him get ahead of the Seal Hunters so they can promptly throw a harpoon in his back at point blank range. Also a SP gem.

He survived, amazingly, only weakened -4 str. I had to draw him back to my fortress, where he has 42 hitpoints, 15 prot, 30 morale, 15 MR, 5 Enc, 18 str (+10 from dominion), 16 attack, and 25 defense. Still no shield, or missile protection, unfortunately.

[Rytek]

I have another to add to the 'not to do" list.

Don't ever have frost wolves guard your mages. Even with 50% cold resistance the mages quickly get over fatigued and die.

[MaxWilson]

Rytek said:
I have another to add to the 'not to do" list.

Don't ever have frost wolves guard your mages. Even with 50% cold resistance the mages quickly get over fatigued and die.

I have to wonder whether cold is really AN as the manual describes. My experience has been that mages casting spells near a chill-equipped monster (Wraith Lord, etc.) take lots of stun damage, whereas normal troops in melee against multiple chill-equipped undead usually don't take significant stun damage unless they're entirely surrounded. (I am, of course, accounting for the fatigue they suffer from regular melee attacks. I mean above and beyond.) This makes me wonder if cold damage is perhaps AP instead of AN--I think it must be at least AP because Agarthan Blindlords with 24 protection still take some cold damage when grouped with Sepulchrals.

-Max

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Here's my tip on fighting undead.

You're likely to have a lot of Tungalik's on hand, but be uncertain how to use them. The answer depends somewhat on what undead nation you're facing.

Ctis and Ermor both get MR boosting prayer. While Pangaea does get special prayers, but no MR boosts. And then there's nations like the Ktonian Necromancers, who get no special prayers.
Among the last two, Banishment is effective, but against the Tomb Kings isn't likely to be enough on its own. That's where Dust to Dust comes into play. It's easy to overlook this level one spell, but it will continually prove useful throughout the game. It does 22 damage, with a range of 25, and is both armor negating AND ignores magic resistance. And did I mention that it attacks the entire square?

It's main drawback is its low precision, but you'll likely have a bunch of death mages on hand, there's little friendly fire, and undead tend to travel in groups.

I've used four Tungaliks (with support) to just ravage four Banes. Needless to say, I got the better part of the bargain. Because it's area affect, its not a total waste against MR boosted skeletons/skelly cavalry either.

it's effective against LA Ulm's Ghoul Guardians, too, and several other late age units.

If you've got Angakok, Cleansing Water looks similar to banishment, but with two key differences. First, it is not negated by magic resistance. Second, it has a fatigue cost, but that only comes to about 13 with 3 path water and 3 encumbrance. It's a handy method for clearing out lesser undead. That unfortunately takes until Evo 6, but don't underestimate the utility of Dust to Dust, available much earlier.

[sum1lost]

Witherbones trumps Cleansing water against undead, unless you have way more water mages than death mages.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

I hadn't noticed that spell, but it does look superior. Though the lack of D3 mages (though easily accessible with forging or lucky picks) does put a damper on its use, especially at 50 fatigue. Still, its worth at least three - though probably more - Cleansing Waters, and works against tougher targets as well.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

As LA Atlantis, you can often easily afford to get more forts up and running, since you've got very poor land forts.

Once your income allows, recruit Angakoks every turn. A lot of functionality is bundled up in them and their random pick. The more you have, the more utility. You may even get lucky and get air 2. Treasure that one, since there aren't any low path air boosters short of empowerment and storm power. Auspex, was it?

First and foremost, sailing. It may seem redundant with amphibious, but it is an awesome ability - though dependent on the map. The sizes are often wrong on a randomly generated map for it to be any use, though. Keep this ability in mind when shaping your empire. Even after you've used sailing to good effect once, the opponent often leaves some vulnerabilities. If you can't use it to raid, or defend a landbound fortress, you can often use it to cut off a path of retreat for an enemy army who has encroached on your territory. You need to focus on making Tungalik's effective, since they're available everywhere, but Angakok's are your game changers.

Random 1' (110%s) magic in air, earth, death, and water is essential to keep in mind. While every Angakok has some effective spells, there are a few key battlefield spells I will point out, though there are fun things you can do elsewhere (such as use up spare earth gems with Blight and Earth Boots).

Evocation Six & Seven opens up the Wailing Winds and Wind of Death. These spells are fairly cheap to cast (avg. about three gems, plus probable booster item), at 100 fatigue, and affecting the battlefield. While Wind of Death affects friendlies, decay isn't really a problem for Atlantis. Even a 25 turn battle will only add 125 years, and even your Angakoks and Mournfuls can take some extra age.

Since an Angakok can easily bring 100 troops or more along with a little experience, you can make some devastating strikes, as long as you remember Wolven Winter, which I generally cast once or twice on the same turn I order the invasion.

One word on Rigor Mortis (fatigue, battlefield enchantment). If you think it might combo well with Grip of Winter: Don't. It'll ravish your mages. On the other hand, you can theoretically twiceborn every mage you own, and once they're wight mages, they get cold chill, 100 cold resistance, and undead, saving you from worrying about partial CR. No more sailing, but they occasionally gain a free pick of death with the associated immunities and weaknesses. If you can afford to invest in an entirely undead, low mobility army, Rigor Mortis may be worth considering, and comboing.

Darkness is, of course, available, but that's always going to be quite expensive, costing 4 to 9 gems depending on whether you need the mage to stay conscious afterward. It's probably best to plan on Darkness dropping your mage off to sleep. Worth keeping in mind is that Darkness is Alteration six. At the same time that you research this, you also get access to, W1 Frozen Heart. Frozen Heart is castable by every Tungalik, and has 100 precision. Even with about a 40% precision penalty, this'll aim true.

Also at alt six, consider casting Iron Bane (E3). I'm not absolutely certain, but I think it doesn't affect most of your armor. I presume the various ice armors are magical, and not affected, though I hope to see soon, in my game, a definitive test-case.

Going up against Fire magic?
With a couple spare gems, every Tungalik can cast Rain. Given the choice between casting it with a Tungalik and an Angakok, I choose the Tungalik every time. Sure, it may cost me an extra gem, but its generally worth it to free up your generally rarer Angakoks for more important, or repeatedly cast spells such as cleansing water.
An Angakok with an earth pick can cast Fire Ward (enchant 4), giving you 100% FR.

If you've got several air Angakok's who don't need to cast anything else (no huge hordes of longbowmen, or you're facing another archer deprived nation such as Ctis), Freezing Mist is a wonderful spell for Evocation 3 and only 20 fatigue. Repeatedly castable without any boosters or gems.

Don't combine Grip of Winter with Mournful, unless you're willing to cast Winter Ward, or Warriors of Neiefelheim. It's a mistake I've made once or twice.

By the way, Mournful will suffer the encumbrance effects of severe cold in a three scale environment. That affect is ~4 additional encumbrance. This, along with interesting independents is one reason not to take cold three- unless its your opponent with those interesting independents.

[vfb]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
2). Get a Snow Captain with Heroic Agility (increased attack, def, and ambidextrousness), prophetize him, give him two Ice Swords. So far, so good. Now you just need to let him get ahead of the Seal Hunters so they can promptly throw a harpoon in his back at point blank range. Also a SP gem.

He survived, amazingly, only weakened -4 str. I had to draw him back to my fortress, where he has 42 hitpoints, 15 prot, 30 morale, 15 MR, 5 Enc, 18 str (+10 from dominion), 16 attack, and 25 defense. Still no shield, or missile protection, unfortunately.

Ha ha ha . I've been playing a little SP LA Atlantis 'cause this thread got me interested. I find it really hard to get my hapooners to throw their harpoons, and when they do, half of the nets end up on my guys. But the nets look really cool, so I can't stop doing it!

By the way, I made my first Angakok my Prophet. I figured the extra base HP and the ability to self-buff with quicken self would be nice. He's W4D2. Then the next Angakok I recruited was A2W3D2. Damn, Mirror Image and Mistform too! I supposed I'll thug the new guy out anyway. Even though he won't have Prophet HP, he can still bless himself.

[SelfishGene]

Remember LA Atlantis' only real advantage is that it's a fully amphibious land nation; it faces many of the same problems that EA Agartha has to confront. Only, imo, LA Atlantis has an even narrower magic base from which to build it's empire.

Things like Burdon of Time are a good idea for Atlantis and takes advantage of some of it's few subtle advantages, like it's near immunity to old age with units that have lifespans over 500 years. Send Tupilac is a questionable spell, as the Tupilac has very poor attack and defence ratings, and it's only certain to kill weaker commanders. (Of course, i've had a Priest Starspawn, unequipped, fight and kill a Vastness that attacked it summoning stuff, so victory is always possible).

Ulimately Atlanis is a nation whose armies are built around mobility not staying power. Use that mobility to get an advantage over your opponents.

[Ewierl]

SelfishGene said:
Remember LA Atlantis' only real advantage is that it's a fully amphibious land nation

It goes one better: try playing around with the amphibious + sailing combo. You can do fun things like starting in an deep-sea province and leaping over a hostile shallow-sea province to hit a land target on the far side. Good scouting is key, because your armies can be just about anywhere anytime if you've got an ocean handy!