MA Shinuyama-MP-boost the Kappas

vfb · #1 July 6th, 2007, 09:19 PM

One problem with shields is that they are unthematic for nations based on Japanese history and myth.

Xietor · #2 July 6th, 2007, 09:24 PM

Agreed on the pd. That is certainly the strong point of the race.

And I am not critical of the race, it has interesting units,just offering a suggestion.

Kappa is not really a Japanese concept though, and I think a turtle shield would fit them well thematically.

vfb · #3 July 6th, 2007, 10:17 PM

Kappas are from Japanese mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_%28folklore%29

Xietor · #4 July 6th, 2007, 11:17 PM

Ok,

I stand corrected, but I still think a turtle shield would fit thematically with a Kappa. After all, they wear a turtle shell on their back.

And maybe they would only lose fatigue if they suffer a blow to their head, since that is where the depression is that holds the water.

Or you could let them buy a Shisha, capital only for 250 gold
each!

http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shishivs6.jpg

quantum_mechani · #5 July 7th, 2007, 02:32 AM

Of all the units to complain of needing rebalancing, I don't think the Kappa is one of them. Not only are they some of the only high prot/low rec troops in the game, there are always cases were being able to get underwater easy is a niche in itself. They are not that powerful a unit, they are what I think more units should be like- useful in some cases, with interesting advantages and disadvantages.

Xietor · #6 July 7th, 2007, 10:02 AM

QM,

Obviously you are fairly adept at balance issues, but many races have signature units that discourage early rushes. Say from a dom 10 wyrm, vans, etc.

For instance, MA Pythium has a hydra, many races have a capital only or blessed units. Several races have size 6 tramplers, that when combined with high morale units can be tough early.

What unit, if you do not mind me asking, is that for MA Shinuyama? I understand that some other races also have this vulnerability. While there is nothing wrong with the Kappa as is, I feel the race could use a tweak upwards.

And since the Kappa is such a cool unit, especially with a bone breaking attack, that is the unit i think would be a nice one to boost.

Sandman · #7 July 7th, 2007, 10:14 AM

I like the fact that Shinyuyama breaks the mold a bit. There should be more nations like it.

TwoBits · #8 July 7th, 2007, 11:05 AM

Shinuyama indeed has a rough time in the early game. Its starting army is pathetic, has no recruitable sacreds, and you noted has no units with shields, and its only really good regular units are somewhat expensive.

But if Shinuyama manages to survive into the mid game, they become damn near juggernauts. Their magic is unparalleled. They can cast site searching spells in 5 magic paths (FEWND). With simple boosters (no unique items or rings of Wizardry, etc.) on their Bakemono sorcerers, they can have mages with F5, W4, E4, or D5 (if you get lucky with your 10% chance, you can even do one better - and also Staffs of Elemental Mastery are also easily within reach).

By late game, they can be spewing out great deals of deadly magic, in combat and ritually. On the battlefield, Fire Arrows is just the tip of the iceberg.

So basically, to pay for all that later game goodness, you have to run the gauntlet in the early game. That's just part of the deal.

So in SP, recruiting indie infantry (w/ shields) ASAP is a good idea. You can do it in MP too, but that wont save you from a nasty rush. Your big tools there will be diplomacy and trade (the wide variety of quality items you can forge should make a nice carrot). That and the realization that sometimes your just screwed

quantum_mechani · #9 July 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Xietor said:
For instance, MA Pythium has a hydra, many races have a capital only or blessed units. Several races have size 6 tramplers, that when combined with high morale units can be tough early.

What unit, if you do not mind me asking, is that for MA Shinuyama? I understand that some other races also have this vulnerability. While there is nothing wrong with the Kappa as is, I feel the race could use a tweak upwards.

I would take the kappas as recruitables anytime over hyrdas, at thier base game cost. The only thing hydras could maybe be cost effective against is an elephant rush, and Pythium already has tons of astral magic to take care of that. As for 'rush-breaker' units in general, they are basically the same thing as rush units- almost exclusively big tramplers or bless units. If there is something that needs to be fixed here, it's that such a small subsection of units can utterly dominate the early game.