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Old July 8th, 2007, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Iran\'s Past

The problem with buying Leo2A4 is that while it may be good in the short term you are going to end up with a block obsolescence issue in the long run to deal with, as both would have roughly the same age and tech level.

"That's where cheap surplus Leo2s and M-60 upgrade packs come in play. There should be at least 500 60s tanks to replace, upgrade and/or convert."

For modernization purposes the focus would rather be on the 900-1000 (or whatever, sources seems to differ ) or so Chieftain tanks in service, rather than the M60. I would guess some upgrade, perhaps locally made, to bring them to standars comparable to those of late marks of Chieftain. Then some thought could be given to the M60. M48/47 would be definitively junked. I would say 1000 Challenger, which would still account for a reduction from the original order which was for 1200 Shir 2 IIRC, the 900 or so upgraded Chieftain, say a couple of hundreds of
Chally 2 or whatever and some M60. That is nothing to laugh at. The total armed forces strenght was 500.000 by 1977 IIRC but I cannot cross check ATM.

"brand new 4th-generation tank"

Do you mean T-95/140mm gunned western tanks?
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Old July 8th, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Iran\'s Past

You're right, there must have been either high attrition during the war or a typo in one of my sources. 1000 Chieftains would be the bulk of the tank force to replace after the inception of the Shir. Upgrading them to Mk11/12 standard or above would be interesting.
Of course, this considered, the whole Patton fleet would be a secondary concern.

What I meant with a 4th generation tank was a brand new post-2000s one. Only working example I can think of is the Korean K2. The Black Eagle is another project but not yet in its final stage. Make the base requirement 120L55 gun or better, high mobility, hunter-killer/autotracker FCS suite with 2nd-generation TI on both sights, active protection... on a newly designed basis. Don't ask for more details, I'm not too good at this generations game. The idea is just to get a newer design than upgraded 70s/80s tanks (M1A2, Leo2A6, Challenger2E...) which would be not much better than whichever upgrade you could lay over the Shir 2.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Iran\'s Past

"You're right, there must have been either high attrition during the war"

Attrition of Chieftain was very high indeed, the iraqis ended up with whole lots filled with them.

"Make the base requirement 120L55 gun or better, high mobility, hunter-killer/autotracker FCS suite with 2nd-generation TI on both sights, active protection... on a newly designed basis"

Frankly nothing of the above requires a new chassis. The gun can be fit in a Leopard 2 or Chally 2 with no problem. The rest is electronic stuff you could fit on pretty much anything.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Iran\'s Past

A new chassis is really needed only if you want radically better protection and a design optimized to take a 140mm from the start.

EDIT
Well you could stick a 140mm in a Leo if you wanted (it was done) but I suppose it might be better to have an optimized design with an autoloader from the start. Uparmoring the tank to survive 140/152mm hits is an other matter. Therefore you will probably need a new chassis with some exotic configuration, otherwise there is no need. The K2 is basically an equivalent of the
Leo 2/Chally 2 with a few funny features.
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