OT: The Future of Computer Strategy Games

[BudgetMessiah]

Sudoku is kind of third grade math homework mixed with elements of a crossword puzzle. It's not exciting, but like most pasttimes, it passes time. Not really my thing, but I see people doing it on the subway, probably because it's easy to get into or put down, and requires very little overhead.

Sounds like you've got about enough experience with fighting games and RTS that I can say you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I could just as easily trivialize 4X games as "make a bunch of colonies, research the whole tech tree, and win". It would probably be about as fitting and apt as your descriptions of either of these two genres.

Try mashing one button against a player of my skill in Tekken. It'll be funny and educational.

[Tnarg]

I think that you are missing the point of the topic of this discussion. I like a good FPS just like any other joe that has some time to kill and wants a little action. What I am suggesting is that I think it would be great to see a grand strategy game in the future incorporating many of these other engines into them to make a truly emersive experience. For those that enjoy FPS they could hop on in and do that take control of a grunt or pilot a fighter or patrol ship and actually contribute to the success of a mission which contributes to the success of the empire. For those that enjoy RTS like "Hearts of Iron II", "C and C" Those players can hop in and take control of whole squad, platoon, company, brigade, division, corp, army, planetary group, planetary defense force, system defense force, a whole fleet. For those that just like to come up with great designs or ideas, they enter the game, work for a particular empire and possibly even mod a change to the tech tree, or display their ships proudly as the new flagship for a particular empire.

The future of course, possibly what could be coming next as computers and interfaces become more and more powerful.

[BudgetMessiah]

Tnarg said:
I think that you are missing the point of the topic of this discussion.

Actually, I'm quite certain that you were responding to my direct question regarding games that one becomes bored with after 5 seconds and the discovery of a "pattern" in said games. I believe that was evidenced by your having quoted that question immediately prior to your response.

However, as you seem willing to drop the subject in response to my rebuttal, we can certainly move on. I'm not much interested in hijacking this thread.

I think it would be great to see a grand strategy game in the future incorporating many of these other engines into them to make a truly emersive experience. For those that enjoy FPS they could hop on in and do that take control of a grunt or pilot a fighter or patrol ship and actually contribute to the success of a mission which contributes to the success of the empire. For those that enjoy RTS like "Hearts of Iron II", "C and C" Those players can hop in and take control of whole squad, platoon, company, brigade, division, corp, army, planetary group, planetary defense force, system defense force, a whole fleet. For those that just like to come up with great designs or ideas, they enter the game, work for a particular empire and possibly even mod a change to the tech tree, or display their ships proudly as the new flagship for a particular empire.

I agree, such a game would be a wonder to behold, and I think we're definitely moving towards systems that can provide the muscle necessary to make such a game work. The trick would then be developing a game so that it's of even enough quality to appeal across the board, and designed in such a way as to be accessible and avoid feature creep.

The most (in)famous attempt to develop such a game, and fail spectacularly, that I can think of would have to be the Battlecruiser series of games (and, yeah, I actually bought and played a few of them). They are a stunning example of what can go wrong if your game doesn't have a streamlined interface, and is not a quality production in nearly every sense. It tries to do just about everything, and fails to be a good strategy game, squad tactical game, space simulator, flight simulator, or FPS. I could go into great detail about their failings, but why bother? Suffice it to say that it's better to do one thing well than do everything poorly.

I would actually be very content if Space Empires incorporated a Deadlock-style ground engagement style game in place of what exists now. Tactics that can be assigned to squads, a handful of meaningful unit types and upgrades that are appropriate for them, and have the computer run the numbers. I'd probably lose my mind if Space Empires incorporated a full-fledged RTS that was well done, but as I said, sometimes trying to spread oneself too thin detracts from the total package.

Adding a Battlefield style FPS, with vehicles and squad roles and weapon upgrades to this, would probably be so far into the realm of fantasy, we'd essentially be talking about a different game.

[Tnarg]

A few examples of a FPS that one can easily recognize a pattern within five minutes. Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor 2. Play five minutes die, restart play another five minutes and the same people that killed you the first time are right where they should be. Heck I love flight simulators, but even highly accurate ones like IL-2 46, the missions and campaigns are pretty scripted except for the dynamic campaing generator which does an ok job with leaving the player with actually not knowing where an enemy will show up.

I didn't want to turn this post into an argument, but an example was wanted.

[Renegade 13]

I'm really looking forward to Crysis, and also picking up Bioshock when I next make it into a gaming store. FPS's can be quite enjoyable, though usually just when I want to relax and not think for a while!

[capnq]

Scott had a blog entry recently about how formulaic FPS games are.

[Tnarg]

I just saw a commercial for the Wii and I think it was Metroid, looked like a point and shoot type of deal. So does this Wii thing vibrate too to simulate recoil? That would pretty cool it did.

Anyways back game interface development and the future. I think if this Wii thing takes off I would like to see the ability to have kits one could purchase or a shell that they could place around their Wii type controler to simulate an actual pistol, SMG, assault rifle sized weapons and weights. Machine gun sized weapons too, no more Rambo games of players running around with M60s toting them like SMG's could be a good thing.

Also a recoil system to simulate an accurate recoil for those that love realism and a weight kit to replicate that actual weight of a specific weapon to add how quickly fatigue can set in after lugging around an assault rifle at the aiming position for 10 or 15 minutes. To reload, one would actually have to take out the magazine and put it back in and charge the weapon. For those that realy want to immerse in realism, highly realistic shells or kits could be purchased of their favorite weapon.

I think for $50 -80 for each size, $100 - $200 for highly accurate replicas, I would buy one in each size or ($150-for a pistol, SMG, and assualt rifle), just for the realism approach. That might even be high considering that they are just plasic shells with a recoil motor, a weight kit to simulate the appropriate weight, and replaceable magazine and charging mechanism.

How does one move around one might ask. Those little running pads of course. No more critism of the video game generation having weight problems. You can get in shape and shoot your buddies all at once.

[Yef]

Tnarg said:
Anyways back game interface development and the future. I think if this Wii thing takes off I would like to see the ability to have kits one could purchase or a shell that they could place around their Wii type controler to simulate an actual pistol, SMG, assault rifle sized weapons and weights.

I don't know about weights. It might not be fun. Sometimes too much realism is not a good thing. An M4 Carbine is pretty light, but when you add CCOs or ACOGs for sights, PEQ2 or PAC4 for night vision targetting, tactical light, forward pistol grip, hopefully not a M203 grenade launcher, etc, you get over 15 lbs easy. That ain't fun to carry around for too long.

[dogscoff]

No more critism of the video game generation having weight problems. You can get in shape and shoot your buddies all at once.

Nah, the anti-gamer crowd will just shift focus:

KILLER VIDEO GAME GAVE MY FAT-*** KID A HEART ATTACK!!!

[Raapys]

Bioshock *is* another Oblivion, in my opinion. Yeah sure, it's better than most games out there right now, but that's because of the lousy quality of today's games in general, not because Bioshock is anything special. It's a shoot-em-up with some more variation than usual in how you can kill things.

Personally I don't think it gets anywhere near System Shock 2, the 'spriritual' predecessor. And as with just about all sequels now a days, it's been very much dumbed down and <made for consoles>. Away is the neat skill system of SS2, away is the Inventory system, away is the chemicals-needed-for-research( now you just spam the fire button while holding a camera ), say hello to another magical quest compass, etc.

Fun for a few hours, but nowhere near the classic that is System Shock 2, and the changes very much show that it's made first and foremost for consoles. Another Oblivion.