Allegiances 2 (Large,Team-Based Game, PLAYING)

[Velusion]

I'm taking down the game since it looks like we are going to restart at some point.

[Janlm]

I don't really understand the problem, however I haven't really been calculating any mathematical formula to the advantage of my own position really, yet any others for that matter

I have no objections against you changing the map a little to satisfy black, now that we seem to be restarting anyway...

[DrPraetorious]

Okay, I've done 2 things:

1) I've switched start locations with the black team.
2) I've moved the two new-blue start locations (the ones west of the lake) so that they are now roughly equidistant between black and green.

Thus, Helheim now has plenty of vectors on which other players can attack him, and he doesn't have to worry that my team is in some kind of predestined cage-match with him.

Green is the only team who might possibly object.

I also changed every "Isle of Balor" (which used to be an empty slot, lol) into a new empty slot #149; hopefully that will stay empty for the forseeable future - otherwise I can just fill every capital with Farms of Plenty, I can't imagine a situation where that would make any difference. Is there a site that *literally* does nothing at all?

EDIT: NOTICE: THERE IS A NEW MAP ATTACHED TO THIS POST. DOWNLOAD IT, AND REPLACE THE OLD ONE WITH IT OR YOU WON'T SEE THE CORRECT START LOZENGES (IT IS THE SAME OTHERWISE).

[DrPraetorious]

Okay.

So you want me to balance out:
Total number of provinces within 5 hops (disallowing passage through seas)?
Total number of shortest paths to whatever provinces are within 5 hops? Which will mean that each start location has an equal number of nearby chokepoints?

The *only* way to make this even for all start locations (along with inter-capital distances) on a map this size is to have neither water nor impassable mountains, which I think makes for a very boring map.

Is archaeolept the only one who wants a map like this or does anyone else share his concerns? Because the other start locations vary tremendously in this respect, as well.

If we're restarting anyway I'll swap start locations with him, but cannot do anything for the eastern positions.

[archaeolept]

DrPraetorious said:
Okay.

So you want me to balance out:
Total number of provinces within 5 hops (disallowing passage through seas)?
Total number of shortest paths to whatever provinces are within 5 hops? Which will mean that each start location has an equal number of nearby chokepoints?

The *only* way to make this even for all start locations (along with inter-capital distances) on a map this size is to have neither water nor impassable mountains, which I think makes for a very boring map.

Is archaeolept the only one who wants a map like this or does anyone else share his concerns? Because the other start locations vary tremendously in this respect, as well.

If we're restarting anyway I'll swap start locations with him, but cannot do anything for the eastern positions.

goddamn it i am not asking for any exact mirroring bull****. I was responding to your specious mathematics. If you can't use your own eyeballs to see how black team is far more constrained and hemmed in, then there is no possibility of relevant dialogue. the start as is is crap. since dr. p refuses to acknowledge the possibility that he could be wrong, and instead engages in a series of perversions of the issues i have, please remove me from this game. I would far rather be in any old random start game than argue against the person who created a totally bolloxed start.

HOW DO I COMBAT TWO MOTHERFSCKING TEAMS TWO ON ONE DR PRAETORIOUS? HOW IS IT YOU CONVENIENTLY NEVER BOTHER TO RESPOND TO THIS?

I refuse to engage in this humiliating argument any more. I will not be uploading any pretender. Give that start to some chump, and watch dr P's march to greatness.

remember, as there is no problem, there is no reason to change this map w/ my leaving.

perhaps having an interested participant in the game design the start locations is not the best of procedures. I have no trust or faith in the current self-interested system. To my mind, the start of this game has already been poisoned to me by all this bull****. What is the proper procedure in a set start if a participant feels that a start location is much worse than the others?

[Snacktime]

I am Cyan and I hear our position stinks. I say, it's just a game! We'll do the best with what seems to me to be a relatively fair set-up.

If someone can clarify what actions are needed in light of the patch, though, I'd appreciate that.

[Micah]

Ok, so DrP spent time making up the map for this game, and as a thank-you gets accused of cheating his way to an unfair starting position, AFTER offering to switch starting positions and take the supposedly "totally bolloxed" one himself. While we're "conveniently not responding" to things I don't see how Arch could miss DrP's offer to switch our starts around (he even quoted it). Arch's last post seems to have become a personal attack instead of a reasonable argument about the map, especially given the choice of language.

Also, chokepoints work both ways, so while the black start is constrained I'm not entirely convinced that that's particularly ruinous. I'd love to hear from someone else in the game if they think that black is in an excessively bad starting position, because no one has yet done so.

[archaeolept]

i'm not interested in subjecting myself to this bull**** just to get an interesting game started. I appreciate the work he put into this, but instead of responding to what to me is obviously an unfair position, he just engaged in a belittling of my analysis as to why the position sucked. this is not a random start. positions need to be reasonably balanced. i am accused of whining because i don't like two against one? well [censored] you

[Micah]

How does offering to modify the map and/or switch positions not constitute responding to your concerns Arch?