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  #1  
Old October 19th, 2007, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: SE\'s Best Quality, And How to Improve It

One of the hardest things for the AI to do is change tactics. For example if it meets a race of Missilers, have it start producing ships heavy in AntiMissiles. That is the line that humans can exploit and win.
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Old October 21st, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: SE\'s Best Quality, And How to Improve It

Quote:
Parasite said:
One of the hardest things for the AI to do is change tactics. For example if it meets a race of Missilers, have it start producing ships heavy in AntiMissiles. That is the line that humans can exploit and win.
That should be possible, but the problem is that if the AI is predictable in that route as well, it can again be exploited by a clever human player.

The problem with making really good AI is programming it. It takes a great deal of time and can slow your computer to a crawl if you make it too complex.
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  #3  
Old October 21st, 2007, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: SE\'s Best Quality, And How to Improve It

The problem with AI is the same with human. How confident are you in your prediction.
Imagine two emperors of SE, A and B, who can see each other's weaponry.
A is making a fleet of missileship, and is now thinking about a smaller but hidden fleet to defend it. How will he choose?
Point-defense corvets, since B will build lot of fighter which are protected against missiles?
Or cruisers because B will not build fighters, as he knows A wants to build a defending fleet, so he will build cruisers with point-defense?

Thinking about it, A as another probleme: "must I continue building my missileships if B can counter them?".

In most case, B will never have to defend himself, because A will hesitate.

If B had only 2 choices, fighters or PDF-cruisers, A could crush him with high-range torpedoes, but as A and B are equals, they both stuck in the trap/coutner-trap/counter-counter-trap/...
Against a human, you will be like A and B.
Against an AI, you will encounter a quite different problem: what level of AI is it? trap? counter-trap? CCC-trap?
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 06:42 PM
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Default AI vs. human

The problem with AIs is that (usually) they do the same thing every time. Even if you randomize strategies at the start of a game, once you figure out which AI enemies are using which strategy you've got the drop on them.

I like to play solo, so I always decide at the start of a game what my empire is going to do and then stick with it.

A favorite role-play is to pretend to be defense-only isolationists. This limits expansion and gives the AIs a head start. Inevitably, one AI gets very aggressive and demanding. Maybe they crash a warp point and raze one of my colonies. My people become incensed and outraged. Nothing but unconditional surrender will satisfy them. Depending on treaties, this can snowball into war with multiple AIs, or my people can go isolationist again.

Another role-play is to decide that my people are blood-thirsty savage xenophobes, who immediately declare war on anyone they meet and glass every colony they encounter.

Another role-play is to be as pacifist as possible (short of surrendering) while still being expansionist. Maybe use intel a lot also.

Another fun thing is to make two human-controlled empires at the start. One is normal; the other is The Ancients. You use cheat codes profusely for the latter to get them super-advanced. You seed the galaxy with undefended supercolonies, computer-controlled uberships, maybe even some heavily-defended ringworlds. Then you have them abandon everything and retreat to one system with a sphereworld, knocking out all warp connections. (This can all be done in a few turns. You can temporarily change all empires to "human-controlled" and have them do nothing until The Ancients are set up.) For the rest of the game, just hit "end turn" every time The Ancients comes up. (Impt: don't use any ministers for them!) See how long it takes you to contact The Ancients. Toss a coin to see if they're happy to see you. (Oh, also, give them high intel points and set it all to defense. Otherwise an AI might use AI to get their sphereworld. Unless you WANT that to happen....)
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Old October 29th, 2007, 07:03 PM
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Default Reactionary AIs

I haven't played with SEIV's or SEV's AI scripting. Are there triggers? I've played with other games' AI scripts, and it seems like reacting to events is always a huge missing element differentiating AIs from humans.

For example:
In SE, if a human suddenly encounters a race with good missiles or fighters, he will either
a) make PD a research priority, or
b) desperately trade for PD, or
c) go into defensive mode, or
d) assiduously avoid that race, or
e) make extra-nice with that race, or
f) go all-out to destroy that race quickly.

Another example:
If a human is losing colony after colony to one player and the situation is hopeless, he will either
a) quit , or
b) surrender, or
c) try to negotiate a protectorate deal, or
d) get vindictive by going kamikaze, or
e) get vindictive by surrendering to another player.

But the AIs just seem to go on with whatever strategy that was pre-mapped out for them, regardless of the circumstances. Triggered behaviors would solve a lot of that problem, and they could be tuned for each race to match that race's personality.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Reactionary AIs

The problem with creating a reactionary AI is how do you determine how they respond in an environment with multiple empires and get them to direct the appropriate response versus a specific empire. Human players can manage this a lot better and that's a big advantage they have - matching up counter strategies versus each opponent.
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  #7  
Old October 29th, 2007, 07:44 PM
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Default OK, assuming you DON\'T have triggers...

what do you do? Here's an idea, feel free to bash it as much as you like. Suppose the following:
a) AI players are plentiful: 25, maybe even 50
b) mediocre planets are plentiful
c) asteroid fields are plentiful and worth developing
d1) AIs don't like colonizing in "their" systems
d2) but they don't totally freak out about it
d3) unless it gets "too much", then they freak out
e) cheap small exploratory probes are default tech
e1) maybe cloaked? extra-fast? solar-powered? unmanned?
e2) definitely unarmed
f) AIs form lots of gradually-improving alliances
g) AIs react negatively toward attacks on allies
g1) reaction is mild if ally is casual acquaintance
g2) reaction is strong if ally is firm friend

If this could be implemented, I think that (if the parameters were set correctly) it would set up a galaxy that would gradually become well-populated, technologically advanced, very interconnected, and incredibly unstable. Woohoo!!

So, what do you think? Is this do-able right now? Would it work? Has it been tried already?
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Old October 30th, 2007, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: OK, assuming you DON\'T have triggers...

Quote:
dmm said: f) AIs form lots of gradually-improving alliances

g1) reaction is mild if ally is casual acquaintance
g2) reaction is strong if ally is firm friend
These threee look like the hardest to implement. How do you define "improving", "casual", and "firm", in terms the AI understands?
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Old October 31st, 2007, 02:38 AM

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Default Re: OK, assuming you DON\'T have triggers...

Civ 4 does it decently. They make a list of things that the AI likes (tributes, you beating up on his enemies, time allied) and things it dislikes (being nuked, bad demands, being allied with his enemies) and weight the AI's attitude and alliances by that.
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  #10  
Old October 31st, 2007, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: OK, assuming you DON\'T have triggers...

Aha, Phoenix-D's post reminds me that Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri did that pretty well, too.
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