Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN

[Lord_Bob]

Which is why my pretender will be large and have a fear effect.

Since I can design my pretender specifically to trash your only way of fighting back, elephants, not so much a problem. However, your elephants could cower behind your dominion.... that would make it a little harder.

Oh wait, double blessed white ones. Did you know a pretender with fire can cast resist fire and be immune to the AP damage of fire blessed weapons?

[Hadrian_II]

Lord_Bob said:
Which is why my pretender will be large and have a fear effect.

If you take dom 10 you even get +2 Awe and will be completely immune to elephants.

Lord_Bob said:
Since I can design my pretender specifically to trash your only way of fighting back, elephants, not so much a problem. However, your elephants could cower behind your dominion.... that would make it a little harder.

the Bandar player could just mix his elephants with high morale troops, and they would not rout.

Lord_Bob said:
Oh wait, double blessed white ones. Did you know a pretender with fire can cast resist fire and be immune to the AP damage of fire blessed weapons?

With Bandar Log you can also go for S9W9 or other blesses, you have no need to take fire.

and btw. even when your pretender cant be killed, he will autorout when the white ones with dual bless would have killed your PD.

[HJFudge]

lol NT Jedi wants improved province defense as an option. Or at least thats what Ive gathered from every single post hes made in this topic so far. It'd be an interesting option depending exactly how it was implemented.

Lord Bob:

As Ulm, you will roll right over any enemy province only protected by PD. But ESPECIALLY in a one on one situation,
you are going to have trouble getting past any chokepoints the enemy has. Depending on the map, this will either be easier or harder to do.

But you still might lose the game, because your not the only one who will be attacking.

[NTJedi]

HJFudge said:
lol NT Jedi wants improved province defense as an option. Or at least thats what Ive gathered from every single post hes made in this topic so far. It'd be an interesting option depending exactly how it was implemented.

When it's implemented will hopefully be DOM_4. How it's implemented can be by several factors... these are just examples of theories so no one should flip out. Construction research could provide better body armor, an extra scale during pretender design which specifically targets the units of PD, an academy building can provide increased morale and attack skill (destroyed same as lab if province lost), gem investment can provide strength bonus, health bonus and magic resistance bonus(elixirs), gold investment can provide improved shields and helms. I'm sure the developers can add other ideas to the list.
Some type of upkeep based on capital distance should also exist to prevent a powerful player from becoming more powerful.

[Zylithan]

Hopefully this isn't considered offensive, except how it is meant to be...

[jaif]

One thought. If you start a game on a 2-space map - one space ulm, one space bander log - then bander log probably loses unless I'm missing something. But make it a 2 person game with 500 areas, and ulm doesn't even get to bander log for a long time.

One other thought - everybody here is so quick with telling the bander log player to micro-manage a ton of patrolling forces - that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, even if it is viable.

One question - has anybody here played Bander Log and done well in MP? Even if it's not a win, it's a start.

-Jeff

[Lord_Bob]

My tests show that 17 Heavy Infantry, or 17 Heavy Archers with an independent commander will regularly route 20 Patala PD with 1 or 2 casualities even when the Patala PD is in a friendly Dominion. National troops with kite shields and decent armour would be worse.

It is a sub-function of the game that got overlooked. It is easy to fix and I have no idea why people are upset over it being a real problem in a small number of cases. Are they worried that these races will become all powerfull if their PD is raised to a level comparable with others? Once PD has reached a certain level of power, increased strength really doesn't matter much. Below that level, it does. PD can't be scripted, thus a well put together army with mages will always beat it. But that's isn't the point of PD. The point of PD is to beat very small attacks.

Markata have a Morale of 7, a MR of 8, a strenght of 5 and 5 hitpoints. Yet they are given a gold piece price of 5. This has caused the 30 gold per point of PD system to give a very weak PD to Patala. Further, their complete lack of equipment makes this even worse.

My contention was that Kailasa/Bandar Log/Patala PD is easily defeated because of the morale failure of the Markata, they only have 7, long before any other PD is very testable and provable. Because the Markata are present in far larger numbers than the other troops, when the Markata rout the other troops route as well, because of the 75% rout rule. Tests of the last two hours prove this out. Machaka PD is also very weak. However, since Machaka is also viewed as a troubled nation, this is hardly evidence that my other opinions are wrong. But yes, it is difficult to prove the other contentions.

[Lord_Bob]

I went back and counted the little monkeys. I then built a slightly better raiding force.

For 20 PD, Patala has:
40 Melee Markata
20 Bow Markata
10 Melee Atavi
10 Bow Atavi
1 Atavi Commander
1 Bandar Commander

this can be beaten by:
1 Independent Commander
6 Heavy Human Independent Infantry
8 Archers(any type) behind the heavy infantry

That's it. 170 Gold