Good late game SCs?

Kuritza · #1 December 3rd, 2007, 05:26 PM

>> The fact that nothing is invincible is truly the best feature of the game.
Sort of a pointless remark, excuse my bluntness of course. SCs may not be invincible, but when a so-called SC cannot beat national troops, he's just not an SC. Thats what I'm saying - astral golems are upkeep-free high-hp astral mages, poison golems are... well, a funny feature, maybe good thugs to raid and poison enemy lands at the same time. But there are not SCs.
I'll pay more attention to poison golems, though... perhaps are better than astral ones somehow. I still doubt they can beat properly blessed jaguars, though.

Shovah32 · #2 December 3rd, 2007, 07:34 PM

Poison Golems have better protection, a banefire shield and no astral magic that would make them vunerable.
Astral Golems can do the obvious astral buffs and cast the very useful teleport, but in straight-up combat my money would probably be on the poison golem(not 100% sure though).

Micah · #3 December 3rd, 2007, 09:10 PM

Astral golems are less SCs and more super-heavy raiders. Properly geared they're pretty able to plow through normal troops without a problem and they have incredible mobility. Great for knocking out blood hunting sites or dropping in to take out an enemy's retreat province(s). They're very, very good.

Posion golems at 9th level research are a bit underwhelming, since they invite the inevitable comparison to tartarians, which is a comparison they lose. They've got a small niche due to lifeless/mindless and not undead, but in most cases I'd prefer the tartarian.

Rytek · #4 December 3rd, 2007, 10:57 PM

Vine Ogre Kings aren't too bad. No head slot, but they do come with regeneration. And the best thing is that they have 0 enc. If you can put some Elemental armor on them you can get em to 100% resist to everything with 1 spell. so, boots of flying,elemental armor,(insert weapon here),lead shield, amulet of antimagic,amulet of luck. If the resists arent a factor you can go with armor of quickness instead for more damage.

DrPraetorious · #5 December 4th, 2007, 02:24 AM

I agree that the poison golem is *generally* inferior to a Tartarian. It's smaller, for one thing.

BUT it comes out of construction instead of conjuration and this is a huge deal! Tartarians cannot make SCs at all without both Const 6 and Thaum 4.

Rathar · #6 December 4th, 2007, 05:00 AM

To derail..

How does one make an effective Dragon SC pretender?!

I have been messing around a fair bit and all I can seem to produce is something which has a 50% chance of taking a weak (militia, hvy infantry, archer) province and almost always picks up 1-3 afflictions the next time they try it and then are done until I have chalice or etc etc.

I know I am just sucking somehow as I see you folks speak of them as being great for province clearing and early expansion but I just cant seem to do it!

Here is what I usually try..

I take a dormant dragon, usually fire, and give them more fire, at least 3 water (quickness) and I have been trying earth, nature, and astral of 3 min also. The 3 value is to enable the dragon to still be able to cast spell in that magical area when in dragon form. I am decking them out in whatever helmet I may be able to afford, usually horror or the nature/gore attack one, a luck misc and a regen misc or reinvigor or things like that. I usually play with an indy level of 9-8 but I have this trouble on 6 too so..

Any clues?

Micah · #7 December 4th, 2007, 05:18 AM

Are you giving your dragons awe by bumping their dominion to 9+? That'll probably fix your problem.

That being said, dragons are kind of poor choices for that because of their low base dominion score. A Prince of Death is a much better choice for an SC...cheaper when you account for awe, more slots and magic in combat form, 0 enc, built in immunities, and a better fear value. Wyrms and Cyclops are also popular (Cyclops is usually used with high earth to hit 30 protection instead of needing awe, especially useful when sacreds will get mileage out of the E bless)

RamsHead · #8 December 5th, 2007, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Rathar said:
To derail..

How does one make an effective Dragon SC pretender?!

I have been messing around a fair bit and all I can seem to produce is something which has a 50% chance of taking a weak (militia, hvy infantry, archer) province and almost always picks up 1-3 afflictions the next time they try it and then are done until I have chalice or etc etc.

I know I am just sucking somehow as I see you folks speak of them as being great for province clearing and early expansion but I just cant seem to do it!

Here is what I usually try..

I take a dormant dragon, usually fire, and give them more fire, at least 3 water (quickness) and I have been trying earth, nature, and astral of 3 min also. The 3 value is to enable the dragon to still be able to cast spell in that magical area when in dragon form. I am decking them out in whatever helmet I may be able to afford, usually horror or the nature/gore attack one, a luck misc and a regen misc or reinvigor or things like that. I usually play with an indy level of 9-8 but I have this trouble on 6 too so..

Any clues?

I know vfb gave some advice already, but so will I. If I am using a red or blue dragon, I set usually set him in the center and far back. I give him fire*5 then attack closest orders. He will walk into range and spit out some flames/frost, and then, if the troops are not already on him, he will fly the short distance and attack. I have consistently taken indies doing this without awe and rarely getting afflictions. Obviously certain indies should be avoided, but your general ones can be taken down without much effort.