Balance opinions

[Velusion]

I don't play the CB mods because of the amount of changes and the learning curve.

I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

[quantum_mechani]

Velusion said:
I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

Having been through almost all the stats/spells/monsters (and taking into account all the changes I've never gotten around to making), I can tell you CB hardly scratches the surface.

That said, it does make a great many changes, but I don't think the vast majority of these increase the learning curve. Very few people have memorized, for instance, the costs of units and spells not widely considered viable in MP, and that is where almost all the changes lie.

[Velusion]

quantum_mechani said:
That said, it does make a great many changes, but I don't think the vast majority of these increase the learning curve. Very few people have memorized, for instance, the costs of units and spells not widely considered viable in MP, and that is where almost all the changes lie.

I was exaggerating the amount changed by a little bit

Well the fact that lots of the non-viable MP strats have changed is a bit intimidating. I can sorta now identify strategies and counter strategies to certain builds/nations/plays - the fact that CB includes a bunch more viable alternative strategies (and counters to existing ones) means I would have a lot to learn.

That said I do think CB is more balanced than the vanilla game and well done. I just don't have the time to play/learn it

[Jazzepi]

Velusion said:
I don't play the CB mods because of the amount of changes and the learning curve.

I finally feel fairly comfortable with vanilla Dom3 MP. The thought of playing CB where almost every stat/spell/monster has been changed is too much.

Same here.

Jazzepi

[quantum_mechani]

This was actually another issue I had in mind with the poll, that I should have separated out from the better documentation option. Or perhaps it is a better fit with 'specific issues' since I get the feeling that most people with this opinion have tried it, found a particular strategy that is made more difficult by CB, and then become intimidated by the list of other changes. The way CB should work, however, is that anything viable base game should still work, with any additional strategies made viable being tried out at one's leisure. A few changes (such as the one to dwarven hammers), have perhaps gotten away from this and that is the sort of thing I am looking to polish.

[djo]

I chose "...too much hassle" for the reasons given above: too many changes to absorb. I'm not worried about most of them; I don't mind the minor changes, and I like the boosts that encourage variety (eg, I like being able to use the drakes).

What gets me are the dozen or so "gotcha's", like when you forget that a key path booster has jumped a level and you can't reach it anymore. Or when a key unit is changed enough to be strategy-changing. They come up very infrequently, but they are frustrating when they do.

I would also like better documentation, but the current docs aren't too bad.

[quantum_mechani]

That sounds like the specific changes sort of issues. I think I will likely do a follow up thread to pinpoint those issues better, I already am aware of several like hammers, boosters (those changes were actually already removed in a previous version), and indy commanders.

[djo]

I should add as a follow-up that one reason I find these changes hard to assimilate is that I just don't play that many games. I am usually in 1-2 MP games and 0-1 SP games at any given time. Not a lot of time to get familiar with vanilla, never mind big mods.

That said, the smaller, more easily digested chunks of CB (scales, pretenders), I do like. I am a big fan of variety, and I fully support the goal of making all the choices more useful.

[Jazzepi]

djo said:
I chose "...too much hassle" for the reasons given above: too many changes to absorb. I'm not worried about most of them; I don't mind the minor changes, and I like the boosts that encourage variety (eg, I like being able to use the drakes).

What gets me are the dozen or so "gotcha's", like when you forget that a key path booster has jumped a level and you can't reach it anymore. Or when a key unit is changed enough to be strategy-changing. They come up very infrequently, but they are frustrating when they do.

I would also like better documentation, but the current docs aren't too bad.

I got hammered by the fact in CB that the normal recruitable commanders, the guys with the sword pointed upwards in one hand, are in fact, mapmove 1. This just hosed me one game when I was relying on them to move a bunch of guys. I was going through rough territory first, and I didn't realize it until I got into an area with some plains.

I do like a lot of the changes from casual observation, as we used CB mod in one game I played in, and I got rushed by a nation of demons and I was able to build several of those demon killing chimes. Which made /way/ more sense than the chimes being level 8 construction.

Jazzepi

[K]

Considering that the learning curve for Dom is measured in years, and any "unbalanced" thing is basically available to anyone, CB mods are a waste of time.

I find that CB mods are for tinkerers who find that their play style is not a winning style, and they want to change the game to fit themselves rather than learn to adapt.