OT: Gravity, Dark Energy, Universal expansion

[Randallw]

I see. of course I should have said energy cannot be created or destroyed. my mistake.

[Gozra]

Just Finished scanning this topic. Gravity is nothing, black holes are mathematical expressions of Newtonian physics. The reality is we have an electric universe that easily explains what we are seeing. The next time you see that Scientist are "surprised" at what they find in outer space please question in your mind if our current theory is correct why are they surprised? The electric universe easily explains what we are seeing and how things work.Try to think past Newton and realize that Gravity is really weak.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/

http://www.mikamar.biz/book-info/tes-a.htm

[MasterChiToes]

Gozra said:
Just Finished scanning this topic. Gravity is nothing, black holes are mathematical expressions of Newtonian physics. The reality is we have an electric universe that easily explains what we are seeing. The next time you see that Scientist are "surprised" at what they find in outer space please question in your mind if our current theory is correct why are they surprised? The electric universe easily explains what we are seeing and how things work.Try to think past Newton and realize that Gravity is really weak.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/

http://www.mikamar.biz/book-info/tes-a.htm

I haven't read these, but generally the problem with an EM structure is propagation speed of EM forces being c, creating a lag that doesn't correspond to observation.

[Raapys]

I thought they'd just about concluded that even gravity was limited to c?

[MasterChiToes]

Unless a lot of old observations were way off... objects appear attracted to about where the mass is, not where it was d/c ago.

[Suicide Junkie]

Raapys said:
I thought they'd just about concluded that even gravity was limited to c?

There are a number of observations that do indicate that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_o...measurement.3F


As MCT mentioned, however, the earth accelerates towards where the sun *is*, not where it was 8 minutes ago.
Otherwise the earth's orbit would be quite unstable, and we'd all go spinning off into space.

So, there seems to be a relativistic effect that mostly cancels out the lag for slowly moving things.

[Raapys]

Hmm, I don't get it. Why would the earth's orbit be unstable? I mean, the sun travels at a constant speed, doesn't it? And the gravitational pull is continous, even if there is 'lag'. So the worst thing I can picture is that the earth will be travelling a tiny bit closer to the sun on one side and a little further behind on the other.

[Suicide Junkie]

Equal and opposite reactions.

If the sun was perfectly still there wouldn't be a problem. But earth (mostly jupiter, due to mass&distance) pull on the sun too.

If the sun's gravity appears to be coming from where it was 8 minutes ago, that would be slightly in front of us, rather than directly opposite the center of mass.
Accelerating forwards would spin us out into deep space.

[capnq]

Raapys said: Why would the earth's orbit be unstable?

Because chaos theory gets involved, which I barely understand myself above the buzzword level. This astronomy abstract mentions chaotic orbits, but I'm already lost by the end of the first sentence.

[douglas]

That falls under the "no such inertial reference frame exists" clause, and the speed of gravity does matter for such systems. Technically the Sun is accelerating so no inertial reference frame has it perfectly at rest either, but the difference is small enough on the scale of the solar system that it hardly matters.