Guide: MA Pangaea strategies

[kasnavada]

Hum, some questions, about armored units... I've been trying a few games with pangaea against the Ai and am about to start a multiplayer game with it. The main problem I faced is that I'm always having trouble against armored units.

The only things I've found that can actually hold the line without suffering huge losses are the armored units you control (I mainly used centaurs), and manikins (probably due to the stun effect). Manikins are rather hard to get though... a few times I got them with independant shamans (the ones that costs 110 and have 10% chance of death, since they are sacred, they are as good as dryads for research purposes and spellcasting), the other times I used a pan to summon them (but it seemed like a waste of time for a 350 gold unit). So I can't really rely on that. Using my pretender seems even more of a waste. Finally, armored units don't come cheap when you try to max out maenads numbers (turmoil 3, building forts in forest if possible).

What I actually want to ask is, apart from destruction, mass protection which are given in the opening post, what other spells or units can be used to handle them in early game and later, relying on national units mostly ?

What I currently do is giving the armored units something to waste their attack on (either the armored centaurs or maenads) while the bulk of my forces attack the archers behind, eventually causing enough killing to rout them, surrounding them in the process, and pelting them with centaur archer fire. That works well with independants but against human players or AI, obviously, this leads to an army of armored troups I won't be able to handle later on, and won't work against a army with high defense.

Another idea I thought of was making minotaur thugs. They seem best suited for it since the white centaurs commander already have a bow and don't need to go melee... other commanders are mages, and expensive ones. I've got little experience with making thugs since I just got the game though, so I'd like some advice on that. Again, only relying on national capabilities if possible. But since Pangaea has good access to earth, and access to nature magic goodies like ring of regen and invigoration, it looked like a good idea.

So... any advice on that ?

[Dedas]

Armored units are quite easily dealt with the nice tune of dancing death and tune of growth that your dryads can sing. Now, now, I know you will all say it's too risky having mages up front but stay with me.

First let's look at "Tune of Dancing Death":

Area effect 15, stun damage 31+, fatigue 5, armor negating, magic resistance negates.

"Tune of Growth"
AoE 15, entangles enemies, depends on growth scale

The clever thing is that these tunes comes in harmony with comman pangean scales and strategies.
Growth adds to ToG
Magic +3 helps ToDD negate MR on enemies
200gp temples makes it very cheap to spread dominion
The dryad is cheap in initial cost (110), cheap in large numbers due to holiness, and is also a priest able to build temples.
Dryad has Awe +2 and no encumbering armor + able to cast barkskin with her N1 + able to forge a hide shield with the same to protect her from arrows.

The plan
Take three or four dryads (no less for best effect).
Forge a barkskin shield for each one (easy with 6N gem income from start)
Research alteration 1
Attack where dominion and scale is on your side to help with awe and magic negation.
In battle, place some chaff first (satyrs or maenads) and behind them the dryads mixed with satyrs (almost same movement). Script: 1 barkskin 2 attack one, ToDD, ToDD, Tune of Fear.

That is it. It really does work and the dryads thanks to awe, chaff, barkskin and shield. I always use this strategy when expanding and the results are more than often great. Of course you will rarely lose a dryad now and then but it is worth considering how many troops you would lose otherwise.

Try it. Experiment with placement as that is key.

Oh, tune of growth is just ridiculously effective on barbarians because of low MR (against growth) and low morale (against awe). Also, they have no bows to shoot the dryads with. That is one reason I always buy a dryad on the first turn so that I can claim any province defended by barbarians much easier.

I just want to add that the trick is really to use multiple dryads to sing the tunes as the three songs scale nicely.

[kasnavada]

I'll have to try that. It sounds pretty useful !

[OmikronWarrior]

A little off topic, but what other nations have the Gorgon?

[Dedas]

OmikronWarrior said:
A little off topic, but what other nations have the Gorgon?

Sauromatia is the only one I believe.

[Dedas]

Here is a small demonstration of what I am talking about. Note that the dryads do not use the barkskin spell as it isn't researched yet. They could of course also benefit from any blessing you like.

[kasnavada]

Thanks for the replay. One more strategy I need to learn to use.

[quantum_mechani]

Dedas said:
Armored units are quite easily dealt with the nice tune of dancing death and tune of growth that your dryads can sing. Now, now, I know you will all say it's too risky having mages up front but stay with me.

First let's look at "Tune of Dancing Death":

Area effect 15, stun damage 31+, fatigue 5, armor negating, magic resistance negates.

"Tune of Growth"
AoE 15, entangles enemies, depends on growth scale

The clever thing is that these tunes comes in harmony with comman pangean scales and strategies.
Growth adds to ToG
Magic +3 helps ToDD negate MR on enemies
200gp temples makes it very cheap to spread dominion
The dryad is cheap in initial cost (110), cheap in large numbers due to holiness, and is also a priest able to build temples.
Dryad has Awe +2 and no encumbering armor + able to cast barkskin with her N1 + able to forge a hide shield with the same to protect her from arrows.

The plan
Take three or four dryads (no less for best effect).
Forge a barkskin shield for each one (easy with 6N gem income from start)
Research alteration 1
Attack where dominion and scale is on your side to help with awe and magic negation.
In battle, place some chaff first (satyrs or maenads) and behind them the dryads mixed with satyrs (almost same movement). Script: 1 barkskin 2 attack one, ToDD, ToDD, Tune of Fear.

That is it. It really does work and the dryads thanks to awe, chaff, barkskin and shield. I always use this strategy when expanding and the results are more than often great. Of course you will rarely lose a dryad now and then but it is worth considering how many troops you would lose otherwise.

Try it. Experiment with placement as that is key.

Oh, tune of growth is just ridiculously effective on barbarians because of low MR (against growth) and low morale (against awe). Also, they have no bows to shoot the dryads with. That is one reason I always buy a dryad on the first turn so that I can claim any province defended by barbarians much easier.

I just want to add that the trick is really to use multiple dryads to sing the tunes as the three songs scale nicely.

While I greatly admire the creativity of this tactic, I just can't see it being much use in competitive MP.

First of all, Pan is ironically one of the nations least suited for growth scale, with no old mages and very optional blood hunting. As I recall the growth effect on the vines is pretty minor in any case.

The biggest problems though are simply how long it takes to get this rolling, and the lost research by not having those dryads researching. On average indy settings, you can more or less recruit an expanding army every turn just from revelers, without losing the research or spending the gems. Not to mention being more all purposely useful when you run into another player.

On an unrelated note, one very important Pan tactic I have not seen mentioned here is the turn 1 harpy buy. If you buy a full pack of harpies the first turn, you can usaully set them to patrolling with taxes at 200%, even while your starting army goes off to conquer. This can lead to a huge leg up in the early game, with all of Pangeaea's effective but gold intensive troop options. It also helps with affording those early Pans and pretty much everything else, the catch of course is lower income late game from your capital. With the additional gold, though, you have good chance of capturing additional capitals anyway.

[Dedas]

Growth is not needed of course, as the tunes work very well even without it (perhaps death is too much though).

Yes you are losing some research, but as dryads are also pretty good commanders (40) they can lead small armies. With tunes they can cut down on troop amount directing money to fortresses leading to faster research.

I can agree on that dryads are not the best unit to use initially, though later on you will have loads of them as you hire them as researchers as well. Some of them could be used behind enemy lines accompanied with revelers and cause some damage. You might have noticed that they now have +25 stealth making them ideal stealth preachers whom are also capable of defending themselves.

Harpies are good for scouting and patrolling, that is for sure. Thanks for the tip.

[Omnirizon]

I think any effective Pan strat must utilize their amazing ability for stealth and cavalry raids. They simply have the best troops for such a strategy.

However, this nation is always been vexing for me to play. I try and get a grasp on the options they have available; but the requirements for pursuing any given strategy are often very contradictory to each other (high turmoil for Maened, but gold intensive troops, for example). Pan is the essence of chaos, and it is always hard for me to get a handle on this unusual nation.

Also, I think their nation specific pretenders are next to useless (with the exception of the Gorgon). LotW? Why would I want to spend actual design points on a glorified Pan? The Carrion Drag seems like a reasonable choice, but if you are serious about a carrion strat, you can pursue one as LA Pan without the dragon; thus in relation making this pretender in any other age a questionable investment.