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March 15th, 2008, 04:51 PM
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Captain
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 902
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Thanked 55 Times in 51 Posts
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Re: Fortifications question
To clear any misunderstanding, I am asking this for more for modding and general knowledge purposes than anything else, I am not arguing that antitank bunkers should be removed from the official iraqi OOB or any other country (that would be a waste of time, considered the others far more necessary modifications).
I was under the impression that bunkers were meant to be that, bunkers (built with concrete/sandbags/whatever, usually overhead cover and all that) and entrenchements were covered by the trenches/foxholes/revetments available in the game.
While fortifications are, by their nature, non standard
there are such things as patterns, regulations, doctrine, available materials and so on.
The iraqis, for example, did dig their ATGs of course but if the info I am getting is correct they did not put them into bunkers with overhead cover and the majority of their bunkers were of the shelter type.
The bottom line is that I wanted to know if modifying bunkers to reflect actual usage patterns is something in the not do list (like issuing jeeps with pistols and the like) because it upsets balance.
Apologies if the purpose of my question was not clear in the original post.
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March 15th, 2008, 07:50 PM
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Shrapnel Fanatic
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,714
Thanks: 4,161
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Re: Fortifications question
My apologies Marcello. By this time in the cycle of patch releases I've put in somewhere around 750 hours 10-12 hours per day dealing with almost nothing but problems and complaints and I start to loose whatever enjoyment I had for the game and right now I'm about two weeks over the line.
Bunkers and forts are whatever the OOB designer decided to add in. Ask 10 people and get 10 different answers as to what should be "correct". Maybe the Iraqis didn't dig in their ATG's into overhead cover. Do you know that for certain or only because no source says so directly ? It's a WAG in most cases based on whatever info is at hand at the time. Do you have any evidence as to what kind of Bunkers Paraguay might build ? How about Indonesia ? We provide bunkers and forts for gameplay in assault missions. They are generic, made up units based on available weaponry.
Don
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March 16th, 2008, 06:26 AM
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Captain
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 902
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Re: Fortifications question
"Do you know that for certain or only because no source says so directly?"
I am doing a research using photographic evidence, US Army manuals and reports detailing iraqi fortifications patterns, Iran Iraq war reports and asking to american veterans about the types of fortifications encountered during GW and OIF.
I am not finished yet and given the nature of the matter one will never be 100% sure, but that is where things are heading . As I said it is not worth the time for an official release but it is possible,for a mod, to make "historical" (to a certain extent at least) fortifications for some of the nations. The US Army manuals for example go to great lenghts detailing field bunkers construction, specifying thicknesses, materials to be employed etc. Pictures of actual bunkers in Iraq and show that relatively standardized patterns are indeed used.
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March 16th, 2008, 01:54 PM
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Major
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
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Re: Fortifications question
Good luck searching, I had enough headaches from research concernin Czechoslovakian pre-WWII fortifications and then there was plenty of literature (sometimes it was more of disadvantage when every single source stated different numbers... You know how it goes  )
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