I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have a

[lch]

calmon said:
... and take a look on their PD.

Its a conspiracy!

Now that looks like a point that's open to debate. Who starts?

[NTJedi]

I believe someone already created a topic complaining about the weak PD for monkeys. The weak PD is extremely noticable and painful on large maps.

Further back I recall a topic where it was agreed Machaka had the weakest PD in the game. Low morale, no shield, only a spear, no armor and zero protection...
it's official these fellas die from tennis balls.

[ano]

I can't imagine anything weaker than Niefel/Jotun PD. They get 1 Jotun Militia for 2 points of defense and this can really stop nothing.
While this is a good nerf for Niefel, Jotuns don't need such nerf, imo.

[Sombre]

munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef

[Drake49]

munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef

The point when I realized New Ulm, made by Sombre, was absurd is when I tried to count the freespawn I would have coming at me after New Ulm went AI in a game I was playing. It was around 4,000. No, not 400, 4,000. This from a nation that had been brought to AI by a poor player and massive military losses. Still had 4,000 freespawn. Before the big war, probably around 6,000+. Everyone one of them non-mindless, BLESSABLE, non-undead flail wielding units. But that wasn't what drove it in.

It was when I watched a Hoch-Hammer without any equipment at all kill a fully-equiped Tartarian. The Tartarian had Luck, Invincibility, and 34 Hp of reg. a turn. Now I understand that old Sombre didn't ACTUALLY WANT the Hoch-Hammer to be able to kill a fully equiped Tartarian without any equipment at all, he just forgot how missile units keep firing after they run out of ammo. A mistake, but a fairly big on. But when your maxing a race as hard as possible, it becomes difficult to avoid little slips like that.

So old Sombre has a little trouble with that 'balance' concept there.

[Digress]

Drake49 said:

The point when I realized New Ulm, made by Sombre, was absurd is when I tried to count the freespawn I would have coming at me after New Ulm went AI in a game I was playing. It was around 4,000. No, not 400, 4,000. This from a nation that had been brought to AI by a poor player and massive military losses. Still had 4,000 freespawn. Before the big war, probably around 6,000+. Everyone one of them non-mindless, BLESSABLE, non-undead flail wielding units.

Its not like you to hold back like this

"poor player" ? Come on - I was truly abysmal as I cast around looking for a strategy before finally deciding to go without one and attack one of my more powerful neighbours without engaging in any diplomacy with any of my other neighbours.

Poor does it no justice at all

edited to remove errant smiley

[Drake49]

Digress, I apologize if I upset you, that wasn't my intention. The only reason I said that was to avoid the "New Ulm lost, so that means it wasn't imbalanced!" argument. People have all levels of skill, and Pangaea is a rock-solid player, and as a result you were poorly matched. He is dealing with my deranged play very effectively as well. I was certainly not trying to insult you. Pangaea may very well win the game. So you were defeated by #1 out of 21 players or #2. Not something to be upset about. But I WAS upset at Sombre, he knows better, and should keep out of arguments if he has nothing useful to say.

[Sombre]

Drake49 said:
The point when I realized New Ulm, made by Sombre, was absurd is when I tried to count the freespawn I would have coming at me after New Ulm went AI in a game I was playing. It was around 4,000. No, not 400, 4,000. This from a nation that had been brought to AI by a poor player and massive military losses. Still had 4,000 freespawn. Before the big war, probably around 6,000+. Everyone one of them non-mindless, BLESSABLE, non-undead flail wielding units. But that wasn't what drove it in.

It was when I watched a Hoch-Hammer without any equipment at all kill a fully-equiped Tartarian. The Tartarian had Luck, Invincibility, and 34 Hp of reg. a turn. Now I understand that old Sombre didn't ACTUALLY WANT the Hoch-Hammer to be able to kill a fully equiped Tartarian without any equipment at all, he just forgot how missile units keep firing after they run out of ammo. A mistake, but a fairly big on. But when your maxing a race as hard as possible, it becomes difficult to avoid little slips like that.

So old Sombre has a little trouble with that 'balance' concept there.

What the hell does that have to do with this thread, or with anything?

If you want to ***** about the balance of Ulm Reborn do so in an Ulm Reborn thread where other people who've used Ulm Reborn can discuss it. And I say *****ing because that's what it sounds like; rather than offering useful constructive criticism you're just trying to take a shot at me for whatever reason. If you want something changed, not exactly the right way to go about it.

I didn't forget that units that are out of ammo keep firing. I had no idea that happened. I've never seen it happen in a game or read anything on the forums about it.

Would anyone else who has played one of my mod nations and read its thread accuse me of purposely 'maxing' them? Ridiculous.

[Humakty]

Well, it is for sure not maxing, their everywhere mages are far too crappy for that, in late age many(most?) nations have decent battle mages recruitable everywhere, or summonable in the case of 'dark' ulm. But their army is powerfull early on, which can make some people think they are overpowered. Sure a strong army wont bring you to victory if you don't crush everyone early on.
In fact I only played a game with them, because I play 380+ provinces maps, and I hate to have to gamble for indep mages.
I realise I know almost only play nations with decent everywhere mages.

[Drake49]

I didn't forget that units that are out of ammo keep firing. I had no idea that happened. I've never seen it happen in a game or read anything on the forums about it.

Of course they do. Anyone can send a thug without damage ability to fight PD with crossbows and witness it themselves.

Once the ammo runs out, they charge, and then point-blank fire.

Or maybe it was the Penitents or the 2 trolls that killed the Tartarian. Yeah, the two trolls couldn't even dish out enough damage to kill the Tartarian if it were paralyzed, and had a protection of 0. The Luck and the Regen alone would stop them. Of course, the Invincibility completely neutralizes the Pentitents BY ITSELF. So yeah, one Hoch-Hammer killed a fully-equiped Tartarian.

Have you heard the one about glass houses, Sombre?

*edit*
I just checked, and crossbowman look like they fire more volleys than that, but that is because some are out of range in the beginning, and some are not, so they fire every round.. but only half or so fire, so you get a count of around 20 volleys. But only half or so are firing every volley.

So I officially have no idea how Hoch-boy killed a Tartanian, except that the Tartanian did die with nothing but Hoch Hammer, Penitents, and two trolls.
It had cast:
<Invunerbility><Earth Power><Iron Will><hold><hold><Attack Closest>. It had luck from an item, regen of 20%, and a base hitpoints of 170. None of the others have anything like the damage capacity to bring him down. It's possible the Hoch Hammer 'saved' his Spirit Hammer throw till he could deliver it point blank, but it's still messed up.
*edit*