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  #1  
Old May 27th, 2008, 07:12 PM

kasnavada kasnavada is offline
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

Has Tien'chi has not foreseen the fall of their own race at the hand of Sauromantia, as a direct result of their lack of action against them ? That makes Claire wonder how much "acknowledge the facts rather than continue belaboring the false notion of their divinity" they really have. Claire adds : unless, of course, they have a plan to counter it. Claire has seen that wasting their armies against Ulm's has not really been that successful up to now, and Claire wonders now how much of a "blowhard without any power" Tien'Chi really is, and who the "generals" really are.

Maybe the "celestial" masters should before speaking about hypothetical futures of other races, even before checking their own futures, checking the present reality of the world.

Claire has. Claire acted in consequence. Claire asks again : will you join the crusade or remain a peasant that beat up other peasants when bandits are at their back clearing up the backyard instead of striking them when they are vulnerable ?

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Unfortunately, your winning in diplomacy becomes meaningless as soon as you are crushed with brute force. That's one of reasons I said that attacking before alliance was formed was probably your mistake - Tien Chi, for example, formed an alliance before attacking me...
Claire disagrees. Claire's mistake that would cost her victory was to die during the second month after the pantokrator died. That prevented her from taking the territory that forced a pointless war against Ryleh, prevented most of the firepriest from researching the spells needed to repel an invasion for a year, and left the north side open to a double invasion since Claire could not secure the land that could have blocked Sauromantia's advance to the south.

Claire however, has not attacked too soon, but too late. You forget why the diplomatic victory was scored. Part of it is as I said in the few last topic : Sauromantia's openly shown greed and arrogance has made it the "enemy". Another part is because in a war, your allies move because you move. Sauromantia had diplomacy in his hands with secrets dealings with most nation and at that time organised wars with others. The only way to grasp that control was not using the same methods, since, basically, Claire had nothing to offer but a promise to attack that could be : a lie or a diplomatic standstill. With no one daring taking a risk (since the first one to attack would undoubtly take the wrath of the defender). Getting enough allies could get months of undoing and there was no just months to spare.

What Claire did then was setting a precedent. Risked accelerating the rise of Sauromantia in order to break the forementioned alliances, making them realize that even by swallowing their neighbour as fast as they could, without an alliance, they stood no chance because Sauromantia already had made that alliance and that it's own individual power was not only stronger than their own, but growing faster than their own as well.

By setting this precedent, by attacking that soon in plain sight, Claire has scored that diplomatic victory at the cost of her future. Claire risked her lands in exchange of a chance of victory for all other nations in the world, including Claire's. Finally, by doing so, since Claire's lands are so far from the Sauromantia homeland, it helped spreading out the lizard armies and make them much more vulnerable. That's the reason why Claire provoked Sauromantia that much and it worked really well.

Now, Claire hopes that the last of the remaining border nations around Sauromantia come to their senses and manage to make Sauromantia back into something manageable again instead of the juggernaut it currently is. That's about what is needed to put the oversized ambitions of Sauromantia in place : to strike into the vulnerable belly of the beast. Claire therefore needed to attack first, since a side attack could only happen after Sauromantia's armies were stretched

To put the plan into simpler words : to kill a beast, you need to make it vulnerable, to anger him so it reacts with feelings instead of with a cool head, and then finish it when it's vulnerable with a spear in its belly, and that the hide of the beast is strong enough to repulse the attackers.

Claire believe that plan was good, and so far it worked rather well. The only problem is that the baits (myself and Ryleh) are falling too fast, soon needing Lanka's help) and that the spear didn't hurt enough, and hopes the only reason is that it is because some of the spearwielders didn't even move yet, and that it is not due to the tactical strength of Sauromantia overwhelming.

Otherwise, the world is doomed to be under Sauromantia's rule.
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  #2  
Old May 27th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Renojustin Renojustin is offline
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

That's a nice way of saying you panicked and bleated for help from nations with their own problems as your culture was destroyed. You got greedy, and launched an invasion on the rich nation that had earned their place, and you failed. You have been counterinvaded. Deal with it.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

Quote:
Renojustin said:
That's a nice way of saying you panicked and bleated for help from nations with their own problems as your culture was destroyed. You got greedy, and launched an invasion on the rich nation that had earned their place, and you failed. You have been counterinvaded. Deal with it.
Not simply Claire, but many nations. And many more may soon aid them. R'lyeh has knowledge from Marverni itself that their god knows that his time is soon ended, and where then will C'tis's Sauromancers look? Not at Abysia, for by then Sauromatia will have swallowed it. Not at Lanka, for the demons are powerful still. Not at R'lyeh, for the Aboleths have repulsed all attacks into their sea, though we may be powerless on land. No, Frannabelle--C'tis will look towards Sauromatia. Perhaps not with eyes for war, but it will look nonetheless.

And we doubt C'tis will ally with Sauromatia, with Sauromatia's enemies so near.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 09:18 PM

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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

Our enemies lie in tatters except for Caelum, who is soon to be devoured by T'ien Ch'i.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

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Renojustin said:
Our enemies lie in tatters except for Caelum, who is soon to be devoured by T'ien Ch'i.
Then T'ien Ch'i is definitely allied with Sauromatia? Yoth'Shothogg thinks that is a bad idea, in more ways than simply the matter of how Sauromatia will ruin T'ien Ch'i if Sauromatia wins, and T'ien Ch'i will be ruined if Sauromatia loses, for siding with such an enemy.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM

Zenzei Zenzei is offline
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

I'd hold such claims until the leader of T'ien Ch'i speaks for himself. In any event T'ien C'hi's coming decision to do something or do nothing will have a great impact on this game and I for one am awaiting it with great curiosity.

However, I must say if what Sauromatia says is true, I think T'ien Ch'i will find the task of "devouring" Caelum to be a lot easily said than done. Just like Sauromatia did.
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Old May 27th, 2008, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

Sauromatia currently holds three seats of power, and needs seven to win. He is currently poised to defeat R'lyeh, Lanka, and Abysia, counting six. A T'ien Ch'inese attack on Caelum would be the worst possible idea, as a partition of Caelum would almost certainly hand the Caelian capital -- and the world -- to Sauromatia. Sauromatia clearly knows this: look how eagerly he is talking about that prospective T'ien Ch'inese attack.

Anyway, I am glad to see Caelum deal grievous losses to the Sauromatians. It is increasingly clear to me now that Stravinsky's Mercy was the best decision I had made.
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Old May 28th, 2008, 01:04 PM
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Wrana Wrana is offline
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Default Re: On T\'ien Ch\'i

To Shigure:
Yes, precisely - he will win without needing to fight Tien Chi. Unless Tien Chi has a plan how to steal from him most capitals quickly enough, that is. But I don't think such can work - certainly not in Calum's case for their flyers can hold besieging forces for very long & I suppose that Saur's know how to guard their citadels.
About your peace with Caelum - I don't think so. You, as I remember, also caused goodly losses to Sauromatia before your fall - and you could cause more if you had Caelum's resources for yourself by the time. It may have been otherwise if they had actually helped you when you were attacked, but such didn't occur.
To Claire:
I can't state loss of your avatar as a mistake - unless it was by mistakenly attacking too strong enemy, that is. In any case, it was tactical, not strategic mistake. I understand your reasoning about alliances & I've already said that negotiations could take too long also. I still think that coordinated actions would have more chances of downing the said beast..
To Renojustin:
One might think that you could by now end your demagogy.. By now all could see that your reasonings are false & you calling names doesn't help any. Also, your resources already do allow you to drop any pretense and still win by brute force.
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