Real-world sensitivities and game names

[Edratman]

In my year on this forum there have been 4 or 5 threads from players who say they were insulted/offended by some aspect of the game. I find it amusing that not once has anyone initiated a thread that they have been offended by the blood aspect of the game.

It is disappointing that so many jump in and try to defend the game to the party that claims that they are offended; as if a well written post would change the petty minded fellows opinion and expiate whatever insignificent issue he has chosen to base his indignation.

I know this type of person very well. The one insignificent topic that they have chosen to defend provides some sort of validation to them. Of what, I am not sure, but I suspect it is something big, like their very existance and purpose in life.

The world has bigger and more significent concerns than the terminology in a fantasy game.

[dirtywick]

JimMorrison said:
I'm actually very confused. Is this intended to be a serious discussion of whether or not Dom3 is PC enough? The entire notion of PC seems to just be another layer of American neo-Puritanism struggling to insulate "innocent" minds against the reality of the world.

Perhaps, but in America I also have the right to be as thoroughly offensive as I'd like. Unfortunately, I don't run Wal Mart, GameStop, Hasbro, Nintendo, etc.

Self imposed censorship is actually a pretty big issue in gaming in my opinion. I'm actually sure the original issue that started this discussion would never have been allowed if this was a AAA title. There's likely many things in this series that wouldn't be there if they were counting on certain retailers and a certain rating from a certain committee to be successful...Luckily, it's not and we're not playing a watered down Dominions.

They're in such a rare position both to be doing what they want and being successful without having to worry about PC, and it's not like it's gratioutiously offensive for the sake of it either. But the point is they don't need to cave in to PC pressure or flop, which is nice and I hope they take advantage of that in realizing the vision of the game.

[Agema]

JimMorrison said:
I'm actually very confused. Is this intended to be a serious discussion of whether or not Dom3 is PC enough? The entire notion of PC seems to just be another layer of American neo-Puritanism struggling to insulate "innocent" minds against the reality of the world.

Political correctness isn't about using nice words for bad things. It's about removing bad terminology from people who don't deserve it.

For instance, I'd expect most people should recognise that it is not okay to call blacks "n*****s", or homosexuals "f*****s". Or that women in the workplace should get called "Honey" and told to make the coffee. The last 50 years particularly, Western society has put a lot of time into fighting prejudice. That's what PC is supposed to be all about.

Where the term "political correctness" comes in is that reactionary bigots objected to having to treat the objects of their contempt with respect and fairness. So they popularised the term "political correctness" (although it existed in some form well before that) as a pejorative. Then they picked on the few particularly extreme or absurd things at the fringe, or just made up their own (such as using euphemisms for bad events) and bundled it all up to smear the whole progressive social movement, and through it their political opponents.

[Zeldor]

Agema:

Why not niggas? They talk to each other with these words.

Political correctness is now just a part of rotten upper classes in Europe that say that extreme PC is necessary part of progressive world.

[GrudgeBringer]

2 cents worth, and only 2 cents worth.

I have a degree in Culturel Anthropology and alot of what is mentioned in this game is semi-correct or at least has a mythological tilt to it.

Gentlemen (and ladies), we are who we are...

We where a barbaric people by our modern standards and a normal people by the Era's they lived in.

Dragons had Virgins had sacrificed to them but I havn't heard One person decry that it is discrimanation agianst the fairer sex.

I suggest that if a nation offends you...don't play it.

If someone is using a Nations like (example) Ulm and is quoting the Baaaaaad Adolph, and it offends you...Quit the game.

Its Role Playing and supposed to ne thematic and somewhat civilised. But we can't contol everyone, we can only do what we do in real life...choose not to be around those that offend us.

Guess that was a nickel's worth!! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif[/img]

[Leif_-]

The way I see it, there's no point in worrying about potential offense. Once we get some actual offense it can be worth discussing, but until then we're just chewing chud.

[Gandalf Parker]

Keep in mind that these conversations impact multiple levels.

There is the question of "why not in the game".
And then there is "why not on these forums".
And then finally "why not in general conversation" (PMs, email to each other, IRC, etc)

Of course the first one would come up against "the devs decide", the second one comes up against "Shrapnel decides", and the last one... well that would vary.

[Tifone]

Mmh don't blame to much the politically correctness. A lot is ridiculous and drives to hypocrisy. Some is an important way to keep conversations polite, diplomatic and not offending people who don't deserve it. If you call someone f*g, you're not only offending him, you're using a word which was used for decades by homophobic morons - people our society is leaving behind, fortunately.

Back to the topic anyway... But if giants coming from the Jewish mythology, and possibly speaking the Jew language, call their priests in their language, which is of course the language of the Jews as those giants where invented by them... it is just thematic. Where is the offense? Really, I don't understand. And if there is something I am NOT is anti-Semite - even Jew people just said in that thread they didn't find it offensive... so it's strange still to be talking about this

[Agema]

I don't think there's anything in the game that transgresses acceptable boundaries. In the forums, I think some people would find the adverts with women offensive, but it's nothing that isn't common in wider society. As for general conversation...

Zeldor: The short, one word answer is "context".

I wrote a long answer, but I've deleted it. Communication and people's feeling are complex things, and I suspect I'm going to be irritated with some of the arguments likely to emerge in debate.

So if you're okay with it, let's just leave it there?

[Gandalf Parker]

As far as context, if it hasnt already been mentioned, part of it might stem from Kristoffers day job which involves teaching this subject. The fact that he is so immersed in religio-mythology would seem to have been at the base of the type of game it became and much of the subject matter. He would have been torn between using his knowledge and trying to avoid anything that anyone might presently be using or might start up a revival on.