Mod Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation

Xietor · #1 July 15th, 2008, 04:43 PM

Actually, my main point for you to change him back to base cost is he is used by plenty of players at the base cost.

Even if I beat you with the ML, or Tuidjy did, or you beat me, does not really decide anything. I may just be a better player than you, and I may be able to beat you with the Lord of Fertility. Or you may be able to beat me with the Lord of Fertility.

My main reason for leaving him alone is not that he is good-it is he is perceived as good by many players. Since the purpose of your pretender point redistribution system is to get players to use pretenders no one typically plays,
reducing the ML's cost does not serve the purpose of your pretender's portion of your CBM. He is already one of the most used pretenders in Dom III.

quantum_mechani · #2 July 15th, 2008, 04:49 PM

Oh, I agree, one player beating another with anything doesn't mean much of anything. But, by the same token, if I don't personally see an option used to good effect, I have a very hard time agreeing that it is worthwhile.

Now, your perceived goodness argument does have some merit. From this point of view, it's just a matter of perspective. You have played with a lot of people that use the master liche, I have not. In fact I can't even recall the last time I fought a newbie using one.

Xietor · #3 July 15th, 2008, 05:55 PM

I will save you a spot in my fall mp game then. And I will use one. Though I will likely play MA Ctis as that is the race I like the ML for. He has higher dominion than the sc liches,
and with his cheaper paths, can easily cover all the missing paths MA Ctis lacks.

quantum_mechani · #4 July 15th, 2008, 06:14 PM

Just being in the same game doesn't change much, I'm talking about directly fighting one. In any case, I must admit to being mystified that this, out of all the one would assume more controversial changes, is the focus of the thread!

Xietor · #5 July 15th, 2008, 06:56 PM

Well i can make sure you start out next to me!

Also, I am giving POSITIVE feedback on the pretender point redistribution idea. I think the idea of making the Titans more appealing is a strong one.

My one minor criticism concerns the ML, and I only voiced it because I am very familiar with that pretender.

Though not many of the players responded to the poll here is a random sampling of pretenders players took in Kingmaker

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=614101

quantum_mechani · #6 July 15th, 2008, 07:03 PM

Yeah, I saw that poll, perhaps would have been better to make it instead, what was the chassis of the last pretender you entered in MP.

llamabeast · #7 July 15th, 2008, 07:15 PM

Ooh ooh, new CB mod! I am very excited to take a look at this.

Also, silly as it may seem, the changed magic scale was my number 1 reason for not wanting to play CB (you must get so frustrated by all the little issues people get hung up on). Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm super happy you changed it back. If I have time I will definitely have a go at a CB game soonish.

I also really like the Master Lich by the way, having won with him a couple of times. But 25 points isn't a big deal I think.

Xietor · #8 July 15th, 2008, 07:21 PM

In Kingmaker I have a lich, playing LA Arcos, 5d 3e 3a. Lich, not a ML. One of my neighbors has a cyclops(japezzi), One has
an E9N4 manticore(EA Abysia), And 1 has a ML with death and Astral magic(ma Tien Chi).

Atul is my neighbor as well with Bandar Log, but I have not seen his pretender. Likely an immobile pretender with a heavy bless.

From last turn(26):

Free scouting report for enemies! Good luck stopping him!

cleveland · #9 July 15th, 2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Xietor said:
Though not many of the players responded to the poll here is a random sampling of pretenders players took in Kingmaker
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=614101

The war-profiteers of Arcoscephale are advised to brush up on their statistics.

54/62 nations = 88% response rate, and the poll was even created after several nations went AI. 2 Master Lichs were chosen (2/54 = 3.7%).

-----

Great work, QM, as always. Perhaps we can change the topic to Carrion Woods?

I've now survived to turn 69 in a very long CBM 1.21 game as LA Pangaea. I put Carrion Woods up on ~turn 15 and have had it up continuously ever since (save a 1-turn dispel incident).

Of course I've loved it, but objectively it seems a bit disruptive...a Level-0 Nature-gem-generating Nature spell. Plus badass freespawn.

Anyone else care to chime in? Zeldor?

DonCorazon · #10 July 16th, 2008, 12:50 AM

I'd be curious to know what everyone's gem incomes now are all-in in Alexandria. We should jot it down and reveal once the game is over. Anwyay, I didn't know Carrion Woods gave you N gems as well but it hasn't seemed overbalancing, though I didn't fight you early on. And when we did clash, I had undead mastery which helped take the fear out of the manikin horde.

I really have no idea how LA Pan plays - isn't your population dying off and your gold income and thus ability to buy mages hurt by carrion woods?