Real-world sensitivities and game names

[Leif_-]

JimMorrison said:
The stated reason for inquisitions was to save the souls of the people..... it ended up twisted into, well, I don't think anyone here should need elaboration.

Chances are, most would. The Inquisition? Not the horror it's commonly believed to have been. Now, the Spanish Inquisition, on the other hand, that's a different story; but then that was an entirely different institution too, directly controlled by the Spanish crown.

[HoneyBadger]

Well, that right there is the main transgression. It's never been purely Christianity that has caused problems. It's always been state-supported Christianity that has been responsible for, or furthered, such niceties as the second class citizenship of women, support of slavery and condemnation of homosexuality, polygamy, burning of "witches"-all of which have been justified by Bible scripture-as well as pleasant policies such as indifference towards the Holocaust, Cruisades, pogroms, the burning of books, the destruction of culture, and hereditary rulership, even if the "rightful heir" is the product of a few hundred years of incest.

I have no problem whatsoever with Christianity, the worst thing that happens when Christians are alone is they get eaten by lions, or start writing excrutiating rock music, and good Christians do actually walk the Earth, actively doing and supporting many, many good deeds-it's when the Church is combined with the State that bad things (as an example, I give you our current administration) seem to happen all too regularly.

[JimMorrison]

Oops, forgot to close an italics mark there.....

And anyway, my point was that even religion (*gasp* even religion!) which is usually entered into with altruistic motives. While there are people with strong religious beliefs who actually live a kind and honest life, then it's insanity to say that religion itself is such a problem as to be abolished altogether. However, I would relate that to the fact that for a long time, some people have tried to extol the virtues of interpersonal respect, and that the PC movement is merely a diseased and rotten offshoot of that, much the same way that the Spanish Inquisition (no need for us to quibble ) was the problem rather than the religion itself.

So, I say down with Political Correctness, up with understanding and respect. <3

[Tifone]

I don't wanna partecipate to this thread because I'm a kind of fanatic of religious discussions and I don't wanna bore anybody here. I just wanna say - the "theory" about the "black legend" of the Inquisition (claiming that the Inquisition was much better than people usually think) has been literally destroyed piece by piece by... I think /all/ the serious historians. It was a just one plug of that big historic revisionism which denies clear and horrible things of the past of the mankind by manipulating facts, omitting evidence, considering only certain favourable data. Like if we can make our nature "better" forgetting our crimes, instead of learning from them what we were, and what we must not become again.

Damn, just coming to Italy (which surely wasn't protestant, as many say that only the lutheran christians made victims with the inquisition) you will find many museums filled with thousands of the horrible and incredibly cruel stocks used for torture... surely they weren't made after that period just to accuse the church unjustly, don't you think?

[MaxWilson]

HoneyBadger said:
Well, that right there is the main transgression. It's never been purely Christianity that has caused problems. It's always been state-supported Christianity that has been responsible for, or furthered, such niceties as the second class citizenship of women, support of slavery and condemnation of homosexuality, polygamy, burning of "witches"

Polygamy is the anomaly here. The only instance of Christian polygamy (Mormon polygamists in the 19th century) I can think of was not only not state-sponsored, but in fact faced intense opposition from Congress and the federal government.

I don't think Christians who supported slavery in the 19th century had state backing for their positions either, although a cynic would observe that it's always convenient when your religious views happen to support the political views that you want to have anyway.

-Max

Edit: fixed typo

[thejeff]

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about religion with State
backing as being some kind of anomaly.

Religious leaders have often sought temporal power. Temporal leaders have often sought religious backing to justify whatever it is they want to do anyway.

If all you are saying is that when Christians have no power they're harmless, then that's almost a tautology.

Was the Catholic Church throughout most of it's history "state supported"? Or were the states given legitimacy by the Church?

[HoneyBadger]

Well, I happen to live in Utah, and admittedly, it wasn't sanctioned by the Mormon church for very long or particularly well, but it did happen, and it was the church founders who were the ones doing it, even as they were publically condemning it. And they had significant, if not ultimate, governmental and political power-more local than federal, but the difference probably didn't mean a whole lot to their various wives.

[HoneyBadger]

It's the combination of the two, thejeff. The Roman Empire supported the early Christian church, and the Catholic church then went on to legitimize the states that followed.

And anything is harmless, if it has no power-the most evil-minded dandelion in the world isn't much of a threat, except to my lawn-it's what's done with whatever power a thing has, that makes a difference.

And the fact remains that in many unfortunate circumstances, Christianity was wielded like a "terrible, swift sword" for reasons political, but in the name of the spiritual.

[thejeff]

Which is my point. Saying "It's never been purely Christianity that has caused problems. It's always been state-supported Christianity", is really just saying Christianity has only caused problems when it's had the power to do so. It's white-washing religion's role in those problems.

Not to blame all problems on Christianity or other religions, or to say they've done no good.

[JimMorrison]

thejeff said:
Which is my point. Saying "It's never been purely Christianity that has caused problems. It's always been state-supported Christianity", is really just saying Christianity has only caused problems when it's had the power to do so. It's white-washing religion's role in those problems.

Not to blame all problems on Christianity or other religions, or to say they've done no good.

Somehow this just sounds like "Religion is a powerful weapon, let us pray it does not fall into the wrong hands.".