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  #1  
Old May 6th, 2002, 04:24 AM

cascalonginus cascalonginus is offline
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

David Weber's Harrington series seems very relevant here as well. specifically the emphasis on size vs speed being inversely proportional. The allocation of weapons & weapons mixes is instructive there as well. It wouuld be interesting to see if one could mod weapons pods, etc.
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Old May 6th, 2002, 04:20 PM
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DirectorTsaarx DirectorTsaarx is offline
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

quote:
Originally posted by Krsqk:
<snip>
There has been much discussion as to whether PD is too strong. I believe the Proportions mod by PvK and Pirates&Nomads by SuicideJunkie have made changes to help this. One fix might be to lower the 70% to-hit bonus of PD. You could also increase the size (one PD=20kt; one CSM=50kt) or fire rate of PD, or make separate forms of PD which can only target missiles or fighters.
<snip>



I like the idea of separate PD classes to defend against seekers & fighters. Should (can?) there be separate types of PD to target satellites & drones?

I guess the only problem would be getting the AI to use the new PD components effectively.

BTW - in my current game, I really discovered the usefulness of seekers (and point-defense); the Toltayans were my closest neighbor, and their ships really load up on seekers. It was a little disconcerting to see each ship launch 8-10 plasma torps at my fleet, especially since I hadn't gotten around to building my usual dedicated point-defense support ships. So, as usual, the answer to point defense is to launch more targets than the enemy can successfully hit...
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Old May 6th, 2002, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

quote:
Originally posted by cascalonginus:
Size of attacking fleet vs vessel size. In the first case, more ships invariably prevail regardless of tech differences of the smaller opponents.


Concentrate your reseach on four areas. PDC (to eliminate the enenmy missles/fighters), combat support (ECM), armor (Stealth and scattering armor have even more defensive bonuses), and sensors (Combat sensors make your direct fire weapons more accurate).

Once you have a decisive advantage in these techs, you will find that your smaller fleet of smaller ships is cutting through the enemies larger fleets of larger ships like butter, even if they have better weapons and shields. Do this and you will be back here in two weeks asking why the AI is so easy and how do you make the game more of a challange.

Geoschmo

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

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  #4  
Old May 6th, 2002, 05:23 PM

Sinapus Sinapus is offline
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

On point-defense... I've noticed something odd on the latest Gold Versions. It seems like point-defense is destroying only one missile per shot. I don't know if this is because damage no longer overlaps when you hit a group of seekers or something else. I haven't had the chance to test the theory in the simulator yet.

Size-wise, I tend to make a swarm of destroyer-hulled ships combined with some bigger ships. But then I play tactical combat, so I can maneuver the ships more effectively.

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: Sinapus ]

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  #5  
Old May 6th, 2002, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

quote:
On point-defense... I've noticed something odd on the latest Gold Versions. It seems like point-defense is destroying only one missile per shot. I don't know if this is because damage no longer overlaps when you hit a group of seekers or something else. I haven't had the chance to test the theory in the simulator yet.


It seems that way because point-defense power is about equal to missile damage resistance. They are each around 50 or so hit points near their max tech level.

I'm fairly certain that missile damage carries over...
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Old May 6th, 2002, 06:22 PM

Cyrien Cyrien is offline
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

quote:
Originally posted by cascalonginus:

Size of attacking fleet vs vessel size. In the first case, more ships invariably prevail regardless of tech differences of the smaller opponents.
---
Any comments & pointers would be most appreciated.



Not true!

Take this true to life example
______
He had
Battle Cruisers (40-50) and Cruisers (10-20) with light Carriers (I think) (5-10). He had no support ships in this fleet.

His ships were a mixed lot. Combined arms theory maybe?

BCs had either APB max tech, PPB max tech, or Null Space level 2 or 3 all with best mount. 1 or 2 max tech not-phased shields. max tech ecm, combat sensors. no armor. I don't really know about exp level but I would guess it was low. Something in my head says so (listen to the voice...) 2nd best engines +1 moves trait bonus. 3 or 4 pd per ship (I wasn't using fighters or missiles so this was a waste against me, though the AI was missile heavy). He used bridge with crew quarters, life support. Had no racial advantages in combat/defense.
EDIT: He also had a few with incinerator 2 or 3 beams.

The CRs were missile ships level 3 or 4 CSM. They also had minesweepers on them. But mostly missiles.

The carriers were nothing but launch bays and cargo space. Took 4 or 5 turns for him to launch all the fighters from em. Launched em in Groups of 10 with a little leftover for a smaller group each turn.
The fighters themselves were small with mini APBs no shielding, 5 or 6 engines second best type.

I don't know what his battle strategy was. But his beam ships seemed to keep at a distance (YAY) his missile ships were way out at extreme range. His carriers launched and ran for the corners and his fighters tried for point blank. All broke formation.
______
I had
BattleCruisers (15-25). That is it, not multiple designs. A single ship design that hopefully had everything it needed as long as it remained in a system with a star.

I was using Meson BLasters with the largest mount available max tech. 1 Max tech phased shield. Max PD two per ship. Best engine in the game. 1 max tech shield regenerator. scatter + stealth armor. 1 minesweeper. 3 or 4 max tech solar panels. 1 max tech combat sensor + ecm + Multitrackx4.
My ships and fleet were elite exp with a 5% racial trait defensive bonus and advanced engine for +1 moves. Maybe one or two other things that I don't remember. Oh. Master Computer max tech.

My strategy was: has weapons, nearest, strongest, fastest
break formation
fire until no weapons left
max weapons range
_________

End result
He loses every single Last ship in a single (maybe two) combat engagements. I lose... half the shields on two of my ships with a little shielding damage on a few others. Not a single shot fired breached my shielding. The Null Space weapons got off a few shots but every Last one of them missed. The fighters were decimated by PD. The missiles were either A> Outrun or B> decimated by PD.

This battle took place not by my wish (I thought I would lose) I knew his fleet was out there but I knew not where. I warped through a warp point to help an AI ally out with my mobile fleet and the enemy was on the other side. Thus both our fleets started in close proximity. He had more ships than his strategy allowed and thus about half of them were scattered all over the combat field in seemingly chaotic array. Both of us were using double wall close formation.

My conclusion from this is. It doesn't matter how many the enemy is if he can't hit you and you can hit him.

Learn well from the mistakes of others grasshopper.

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

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  #7  
Old May 6th, 2002, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Size Does Matter

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
I like the idea of separate PD classes to defend against seekers & fighters. Should (can?) there be separate types of PD to target satellites & drones?
I guess the only problem would be getting the AI to use the new PD components effectively.



Devnull Mod uses two kinds of PD with different targets. The classic PDC can hit seekers only. The Anti-Fighter-Missile does more damage but has reload 2 and can hit seekers/fighters/drones/sats. The AI uses them without any problem, because PDC also act as mine sweeping components. So you can add PDC with the "mine sweeping" ability and "point defense" will give you Anti-Fighter missiles once they are available. This among other things needs a lot of changes to the AI design files, of course.

quote:
Originally posted by Sinapus:
On point-defense... I've noticed something odd on the latest Gold Versions. It seems like point-defense is destroying only one missile per shot. I don't know if this is because damage no longer overlaps when you hit a group of seekers or something else. I haven't had the chance to test the theory in the simulator yet.



No offense, but was that ever different? If I am not terribly mistaken, I recall doing some testing with missiles having really low (5 or 10) damage resistance under 1.49 (or 1.41) and found that one shot from a PD cannon would only destroy one seeker.

Rollo

edit: typos

[ 06 May 2002: Message edited by: Rollo ]

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