Turmoil 3 / Luck 3?

[Jazzepi]

To JimMorrison:

>>or "some neutrals attack your province". Mid-> late game the second category type of events you can easily remedy with a modicum of PD if your PD is good, otherwise you can just dump 20 into a province and have basic immunity from those events in that province.<<

I'll just quote myself because I'm a giant elitist douche, and it's fun to pretend like you haven't actually read what I already wrote.

I think Bandar log has /exceptionally/ terrible PD. I mean, there was a huge thread with a guy on here who was convinced that Bandar log's inability to win was based solely on the awfulness of their PD alone. Now, he might have been a big jerk, but he was probably right about how bad the PD was.

Because of this Bandar log doesn't fall under the net I was trying to cast because they can't simply dump money into PD, and become immune to the majority of the invasion bad luck events. It's probably poor wording on my part. I'm tired, and now I have to go buy TEN POUNDS OF GROUND BEEF.

So in general, for most races in the game, your only choices are O3/M2 or T3/L3. In the same vein, I always start my scales off with Magic 1, and I rarely change that anymore. You'd have to find a good reason to make me waste a tick to get to M2, and I think Drain 2 is terrible unless you have a race that is resistant to it.

Oh, and JimMorrison, I will kill you with an ice pick.

Jazzepi

PS. I think your contention that at 20 provinces you start hitting the 3 events a turn most of the time is incorrect, and makes you a poopyface.

[JimMorrison]

I never knew that you were so horrified by ground cow meat, that you could erupt into such a display of..... eruption!


Anyway, the wording of your quote was really weird, it makes it sound like you are saying "if your PD is good, *otherwise* you can just dump 20 into a province". I think you were trying to say if you get good PD, 20 will save you from almost any indie events. Which is probably true.


This is the quote that I was more trying to address though:

You're missing the point. The decision for me is binary, the reason I'm comparion those two scale choices is because they're the most efficient choices for that slot. Either you take O3/M2 or you take T3/L3. There's absolutely no reason to take something in between, unless you enjoy throwing away points for the anti-synery of Order and Luck, in which case you need to rethink your design because you've reached a point where you're wasting points.

Because taken together, you're basically stating that there are only 2 options worth ever taking at all. Therefore if poor PD makes O3/M2 unattractive, your only other option is T3/L3. So my first argument being that you only have to look at it that harshly if you are married to an awake SC, as they are expensive, so your points on scales must be carefully spent. But beyond that, I'm just saying that if you don't want Misf, you're not killing yourself by going L3, and you're not killing yourself by not going O3, either.


Im not sure that the comparison with M2 is really fair either (I think you are in a bit of a frenzy here, over this ground beef!). M1 gives a measurable and valuable benefit, M2 does not. Meanwhile, M2 does not even give much of any abstract or indirect benefit, whereas all gradations of the Order and Luck scales give you a quantifiable change in variables.

Granted, I would agree that it's unwise to have both Order and Luck scales left at even. One or the other should certainly be boosted at all times (and I'd still agree that usually it should be Order first), but I am pretty sure that if you can afford it, O3 or L3 with the other scale set even, can be a good way to go in some cases. I recently did a game with Caelum with 1T/3L, and it was chugging along great until my Virtue got a disease (that little **** ) which brought the whole machine to its knees.


And I will see your icepick Jazzepi, and raise you a wooden spoon. O.O


Oh and beyond that, I think by 20 provinces, the T3/L3 build should get 3 events almost every single turn. Less maximized builds maybe don't peak until about 30 provinces. But when I take O3/L3 I get plenty of events, and even with O3/L- I seem to get quite a lot of events. Maybe this is something worth plugging into a test game..... Hmmmmm.