Ooh, ooh, new info on patch page! - Page 5

Endoperez · #1 October 28th, 2008, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Yeah, right. Remote damage spells against giants with resists. Maybe if you have few hundred gems to waste on few giants...

Leprosy.

Psycho · #2 October 28th, 2008, 05:06 AM

Fires from Afar, Flames from the Sky, Muredering Winter etc. cannot kill giants. I guess leprosy or beckoning could work.

Zeldor · #3 October 28th, 2008, 05:10 AM

Leprosy and beckoning have MR checks. Even if you get with some leprosies through, you can just hope for some minor afflictions on giants [and they can always put Shrouds on to get regen working all the time, which may stop getting any of them at all].

konming · #4 October 28th, 2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Leprosy and beckoning have MR checks. Even if you get with some leprosies through, you can just hope for some minor afflictions on giants [and they can always put Shrouds on to get regen working all the time, which may stop getting any of them at all].

Hinnom has pretty good healers. Who cares about afflictions?

Zeldor · #5 October 28th, 2008, 05:15 AM

Sombre:

I think that nerfing their astral would be a better idea, they really need a lot of gold for mages and all that freespawn.

And I'd also really like to see some better ways to invade water, now ANY nation in a game makes game more boring. Sitting in water is turtling, clamming etc and trying to invade water is well... boring. You need high level spells and cannot use almost any magic potential when you get over there.

Zeldor · #6 October 28th, 2008, 12:12 PM

chrispedersen:

Both Hinnom and Niefel are beyond any other nation. The fact that in some circumstances [bad player? good cooperation against them? different game settings?] they are not dominating means nothing. Look at the big picture. While Niefel and Hinnom are very strong in early game, in mid they turn into insane mode - buffs + construction for forging + recruitable SCs. At that stage Hinnom is as strong as he had 3x more provs.

chrispedersen · #7 October 28th, 2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldor

chrispedersen:

Both Hinnom and Niefel are beyond any other nation. The fact that in some circumstances [bad player? good cooperation against them? different game settings?] they are not dominating means nothing. Look at the big picture. While Niefel and Hinnom are very strong in early game, in mid they turn into insane mode - buffs + construction for forging + recruitable SCs. At that stage Hinnom is as strong as he had 3x more provs.

Zeldor I have played Hinnom/Gath in something like 9 mp games.
I've been playing Dominions since its inception. Perhaps I am completely unskilled. But I simply do not find Hinnom to be the game breaker you portray it to be. Strong yes. Top Ten yes. Beyond any other nation.. no.

You posit that Hinnoom and Niefel are beyond any other nation.
But that just doesn't square with objective reality. LA Ermor, LA Ryalla are much bigger problems.

I believe I can reliably beat a person of equal skill playing hinnom with many different nations - I don't think its even particularly challenging. Lanka, Mictlan,LA Mictlan, LA ermor, Sauromatia, to name a few.

By the way - I am not a competent player with ulm - but I'd be interested in seeing how the the ulm new stop sacred would work again hinnom / Niefle.

And the Size difference makes a *huge* difference. It stops the chariots from trampling some of Fomorias units, some of Niefles, and elephants - which includes the arcosephale nations, the bandar log nations, and independent elephants - not to mention Caelum's mammoths.

I have no problem if hinnom is nerfed (hopefully in a thematic sense). But to my mind the biggest problem is the strength of the starting army.

But I'd much rather see some of the weak races boosted a little.
Yomi, if it had just a few problems fixed (mostly having to do with magic paths)- could just blow Niefle out of the water.

Change the precision of those yomi flame throwing units from 8 to 11, and increase the prcision of the throw flames to +4 and you'd see Niefle.. go down in flames.. literally.

And its not that unbalancing as you're talking about 3 ammo units......

Sombre · #8 October 28th, 2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

By the way - I am not a competent player with ulm - but I'd be interested in seeing how the the ulm new stop sacred would work again hinnom / Niefle.

Probably not too well, since EA Ulm doesn't have any units with that ability.

Quote:

And the Size difference makes a *huge* difference. It stops the chariots from trampling some of Fomorias units, some of Niefles, and elephants - which includes the arcosephale nations, the bandar log nations, and independent elephants - not to mention Caelum's mammoths.

Elephants and mammoths are size 6, so hinnom chariots could never trample them. Niefel giants are size 5 and I don't believe size 6 hinnom chariots could beat them via trampling - size 6 vs size 5 and they're quite a lot worse, particularly against cold aura blessed units that are 1 to a square.

Quote:

Change the precision of those yomi flame throwing units from 8 to 11, and increase the prcision of the throw flames to +4 and you'd see Niefle.. go down in flames.. literally.

That would be a pretty major boost, changing flames from inaccurate spray to laser precise magic missiles.

MaxWilson · #9 October 28th, 2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

By the way - I am not a competent player with ulm - but I'd be interested in seeing how the the ulm new stop sacred would work again hinnom / Niefle.

Probably not too well, since EA Ulm doesn't have any units with that ability.

Some people play multi-age.

FWIW, in test games I found that the MA Ulm "sacred" troop (well, their weapons are sacred, sort of), in moderate numbers, is quite capable of killing off a fully decked-out Malik SC from Ashdod. Fatigue kills SCs.

-Max

chrispedersen · #10 October 28th, 2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sombre

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

By the way - I am not a competent player with ulm - but I'd be interested in seeing how the the ulm new stop sacred would work again hinnom / Niefle.

Probably not too well, since EA Ulm doesn't have any units with that ability.

Irrelevent (as you know). Single Age mod allows any age to face any age.

Quote:

And the Size difference makes a *huge* difference. It stops the chariots from trampling some of Fomorias units, some of Niefles, and elephants - which includes the arcosephale nations, the bandar log nations, and independent elephants - not to mention Caelum's mammoths.

Elephants and mammoths are size 6, so hinnom chariots could never trample them. Niefel giants are size 5 and I don't believe size 6 hinnom chariots could beat them via trampling - size 6 vs size 5 and they're quite a lot worse, particularly against cold aura blessed units that are 1 to a square.

Quote:

Try it. Hinnom tramples niefle giants just fine.

Change the precision of those yomi flame throwing units from 8 to 11, and increase the prcision of the throw flames to +4 and you'd see Niefle.. go down in flames.. literally.

That would be a pretty major boost, changing flames from inaccurate spray to laser precise magic missiles.

Yomi needs a big boost. Personally I agree. I'd rather see the area of effect increase, rather than the precision - but I don't think that happens.

But the precision algorithm is seriously whacked. Routinely you will hit something 30degrees or 45 degrees away from where you were aiming. I'm not an archer. Never have been, never will be.
But I can damn sure do better than a 45 degree variance. Routinely.