OT: Making a Game System (part 2)

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by Omniziron

this isn't true. it simply means that this character can't dump all points into using THAT ONE WEAPON while allowing the character to remain dumb as a box of rocks, oblivious as an Alzheimer's patient, and clumsy as a cow on rollerskates and still expect to use that weapon with any efficiency.
It really blunts min-maxing that simpler systems cannot stop. Also, and this isn't explicitly in the system yet, but it will allow for the reality that knowing how to use weapons other than that of your specialty will actually improve your skill with your specialized weapon due to a cognitive process called synthesis. I actually read a lot about this while I was tooling through martial arts boards (people talking about improving their kendo or some other skill by learning to use a naginata or something).

Hmmm...
I don't know the details of the system you have in mind but lets just make one example.
Computer programming and talking have synergy effects like one who's good a memorizing vocabulary is good at memorizing commands. Likewise someone who's able to express exactly what he wants to say should also find it easier to program a computer. But a computer programmer needs mathematics, too, and computer knowledge.
So lets make the formula for programming skill with the harmonic mean and add the talking synergy.
programming=1/(1/talk+1/math+1/computer knowledge)

Average person:
talk=5
math=5
computer knowledge=5
The average persons programming skill is (1/5+1/5+1/5)¯¹*3 = 5
Single-minded computer genius:
talk=2
math=9
computer knowledge=10
His programming skill is (1/2+1/11+1/10)¯¹*3 = 4.2 - lesser than that of the average person allthough he has burned more points.
Balanced person:
talk=7
math=7
computer knowledge=7
programming skill: 7/3 = 7 - this is the min-maxed value you can't go higher with 21 points.

So every good programmer is also an above average speaker. This is in no way realistic. There's countless examples of people being good at one thing while lacking in other areas despite synergy effects - this is what makes individuality possible. It can't be encompassed with an harmonic mean as long as you want to have synergistic effects. With a harmonic mean whatever gives a bonus will also become a limiting factor.
You can certainly tweak that a bit but I'm quite sure you'll end up with that the balanced person is best at everything or so close to it that there is no point of building up strengths and weaknesses.

better formula (1/(talk*2)+1/math+1/computers)¯¹*3

average: 6
specialized: 6.3
balanced: 8.4

also, specialization's downside being lack of diversity is a crock of **** in any system that doesn't penalize lack of diversity:
"yes, I do +23 damage, have +12 attack, and get 9 attacks per round with my longswords. but that's ALL I can do, and just think of all the stuff I'm missing out on doing... like... like... singing opera... and cooking... and writing poetry... Don't you see how my character suffers due to its extreme specialization. It's pure torture. But the world needs me, so I trudge on."

Then just penalize it. Get the +23 damage guy into a situation where his longsword is useless - for example grappling, a fight against a ghost, a karaoke contest.

[JimMorrison]

Obviously, there is a point where creativity is required to tune the math to the appropriate point.

I'm going to assume here, that what you want Omni, when you think of "harmony", is a balance between diversity and specialization. So I think a good way to achieve this, is to look at how a character might develop, such as Illuminated One's calculations - and parse out typical scores based on 'single stat min-maxing' or 'across the board flat scores with purely harmonic means'. Then in comparing the numbers, alter the math so that the "peak" of a character's ability, falls somewhat in between these scenarios - a mathematical paradigm that rewards well thought out specialization AND diversity.

It would seem you want to do more to avoid having pure specializers than hindering a jack-of-all trades, but by adding bonuses in the appropriate points, you can reward someone for making a couple stats shine, while allowing them to not be utterly crippled if they are deficient in some area. The point being that a player can neglect some things as a matter of choice, because otherwise there is simply enforcement of pure diversity, and no direct reward for ever trying to excel in any one thing.

People are multifaceted, some facets are dull, some are sparkly, but no one facet makes you a god.