Repair vehicle and units

[RERomine]

One thing a lot of people don't realise is how dangerous tanks can be even, in training exercises.

We had one crewman leaning over the coax ammo box which is attached to the side of the main gun next to the breach when someone in the gunners position max depressed the gun. Tube goes down, breach and ammo box go up, resulting in a soldier with a fractured back. He was slammed into the top of the turret. One crewman just fell off the tank. He was behind me. I turn to look away and when I looked back, he was on the ground. He ended up with a dislocated elbow. At least in these cases, both survived. I've heard other stories where crewman didn't survive, but haven't personally seen anything like that.

[PanzerBob]

Every large training Exercise I was ever involved with always seemed to have deaths involved. In the 70's as a kid NATO Forces were always loosing people in everything from fighters slamming into hills to troops being run over in the middle of the night. You get enough "hardware" crashing around the country side something is going to give.

Bob out

[mosborne]

Hi:
I am in favor of some new feature dealing with immobilized vehicles.

Perhaps some ground rules are needed.

a) Aid vehicle has to be in same hex as damaged vehicle.
b) Weapon fire damage is not repairable in the field. Likewise, building collapse should be treated as weapon fire damage. So vehicles damage because of these events can not be repaired, but can be moved.
c) Any vehicle can be moved.
d) Moving damaged vehicles require movement points
e) Amount of movement points is a function of vehicle weight, damage and terrain. Movement cost can exceed the cost of any one aid vehicle, thus requiring more than one aid vehicle to move one hex.
f) Aid vehicle is subject to same conditions that incapacitated the damaged vehicle. For example, if damaged vehicle is in mud, aid vehicle can get stuck in mud too!
g) Aid vehicle(s) combined weigh must be x% larger than damage vehicle. Where x is greater than 100 and represents the anchoring required.
h) Time to move starts at 2 turns plus random roll during an aid vehicle unsuppressed(0) subsequent turn.
i) Subsequent movement of damage vehicle requires all same vehicles remain together (formation move 1 hex). If any aid vehicle departs, the process starts over again.
j) Movement can only continue as long as all aid vehicles involved remained unsuppressed. Movement is per (e) above.
k) If damage to vehicle was due to terrain, then once damaged vehicle has been removed from inflicting terrain, the damage is removed and the vehicle returns to operation.

There is a bit of programming involved in this as I sure the designers see right off.

Some simplication is possible by just designating any vehicle larger than the damage one as capable of being a towing vehicle and only one towing vehicle is needed for any terrain. And maybe just allow one hex move on the successful die roll.

Sorry to be so long
Thanks

[RERomine]

There is still the problem with the nature of the immobilization to consider. If you look at the picture I embedded on the first page, that would be considered a terrain immobilization, but that certainly wouldn't be returned to operational condition during the a game battle, even after you got it out of the ditch. Another post mentioned the 48 hour recovery of a Leo 1. Again, a terrain immobilization if I understand it correctly. In game terms, when it's a terrain immobilization, the unit is just immobilized, somehow. Flat tire, broken track, high centered, mired in mud, rolled, etc. How is it is immobilized is up to our imagination. Unless that is defined, it's not really possible to say it could be returned to action once removed from the hex the immobilization occurred in.

In game terms, some other aspects are already possible. There are some tank transports available and immobilized units can be moved. The transports do have to be in the same hex as the tank to be transported to load them. Loading tanks, especially immobilized ones, is quicker than it should be, but I wouldn't change the code for that rare instance. Tank transports aren't going to come up unless the area is secured, unless you want to risk getting it destroyed, so you usually have all the time in the world to load it. Who cares if it takes only one game turn?

Building immobilizations are a another one of those that don't provide enough specifics on how they got stuck. Did they break a track or are they in some poor soul's basement? If in the basement, they shouldn't even be able to fire, unless it's at rats.

Just based on how things work, we can draw conclusions from about the immobilizations. Since they can still fire, they aren't in someone's basement, rolled or submerged up to the commander's hatch with a barrel full of water and mud. It still leaves some possibilities that aren't quick fixes such as mired or broken track/flat tire. The quickest fix I can think of is for a high centered tank. A quick pull or push might solve that problem. With terrain immobilizations, if you are careful, they can be avoided. This is one thing that, IMO, really wouldn't add much to the game if it was changed. If we start doing this, then maybe we start wanting to look at excessive speed breakdowns, burned out transmissions and simple blown engines. All realistic, but do we want to fight a battle or open a tank repair depot?

[Imp]

Mosborne pretty sure this has been covered several times (try a search) & like helo suggestions I think you are stepping outside whats possible.
This is an old programe & units cannot realy interact with each other.
We have ammo supply & loading other units & thats about it as far as I know a vehicle cannot give some of its MP to another unit & move it.

As a workaround you cannot repair stuff but you could simulate a repair vehicle that could move an immobile vehicle by giving it the carry capacity to lift it.
This will not work for destroyed vehicles as I do not think you can interact with wrecks.

Barring weapon jams about the only thing that could probably be fixed in the scope of the game is immobilisation due to getting stuck in mud or water obstacle. Others like mines rough would probably have caused a thrown track or some such. Even then I would think pulling 50 tons of metal out might take a while by the time you take into account things like careful approach of rescuer so he does not need help to.
Just read the rest of this thread maybe you should

[troopie]

The quickest mobility damage repair that I know of is replacing a tyre on a vehicle. You tow it out of range. You DON'T try to change it under fire. The next quickest is replacing the wheel and tyre on a MPV. You have to jack the bugger up, then remove the remnants of the wheel, check the damage to the axle, and replace it if it's too badly damaged. The whole thing takes at least an hour. More if you're under fire.

troopie.

[Double_Deuce]

I have been thinking about this a lot and I would really like to see more ACRV's added. I know that "recovery and repair" is not modeled in the game nor does it need to be to have these units included.

For example, why not have these recovery vehicles included and have them limited to the same role at the "Tank Transporter". I know they have the capability already to pick up and carry away BUT from a graphic standpoint they look . . . funky and out of place.

The idea being they can be there to "drag" immobilized vehicles out of the fray. In scenarios this is no big deal BUT in campaigns they could become very useful in saving a vehicle from being completely lost. They would be especially useful in my Silver Lions II User campaign.

Thoughts?