Honor Harrington Mod Discussion

[Phoenix-D]

The hyperspace map thing is too limited, really, and still doesn't quite fit.

There is no "can't hurt shields" damage type in SE4. So the energy torps (from On Basilk Station BTW) would have to be toned down in power.

I suppose I could make all weapons EXCEPT the torps do 4x to shields, then have the torps skip armor..

re: the nodes: I'm probably going to make them provide high amounts of ECM, simulating the fact that you can't hit a third of the ship. And after all, in the HH universe if you lose the wedge in combat.. you're screwed. Loosing a lot of ECM would hurt pretty badly too.

The smaller ships do tend to manuver more, probably because the *can* manuver more, where the others tend to close in for massed PD fire. So the smaller ships will have higher inherent ECM, and the larger ships will want to use the Wall formation (or varients) for the extra missile defense.

The nodes will be pretty big; I'm representing the entire system in two parts, so those parts will be bulky. Engine destroyers don't really fit HH tech anyway, so they'll probably be out.

Phoenix-D

[ June 19, 2002, 03:22: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[RWittman]

First of all, great news that you are taking on this diffcult task. I can't wait to try it out. I would be glad to help, but I have no SE4 mod experince. I could beta test or anything else to help. I love the books and have read it twice through. One question, I thought a DN was bigger then a BB (only the Peep's used BB, and they were for system garrision. Only massed for space combat as an idea to give the Peep's some fodder.) But in your example you said DN vs BB, DN dies ?

[Dead Meat]

-LACs replace fighters. This means LACs can't fire laser-head missiles. Ideas on how to get around this?

I don't think that you would be able to get around this with missles being drones, sense units can't launch stuff (though i could be wrong). What you might have to do instead is just have a normal missle for fighters (rocket pods), lower the amount of damage and lower the to hit % so ships could still doge. Remember that LACs wheren't realy use effectivly till the Manties came up with the fore and aft side walls and the LAC carrier. Not to mention the stealth techology so they could get in close to be effective. Till then, they where mostly Last ditch, system defence ships.

I like the Missle = Drones idea. Don't forget that each ship class has a diffrent size missle (not to mention how much ammo they hold) which relates to the damage the missles do. Example would be that a DDs missle is way smaller than a DNs. But where a DN would laugh if a DDs missle hit it, the DD would more or less just disapair if hit by a DNs cap missle. I know one of the books (hard cover?) shows the relations of ship to each other and the size relation of missle for the diffrent ship sizes.

In other words, send a BB against a DN, expect the DN to die. Send FOUR BCs against a DN, expect the BCs to die. Quickly. Balanced by the fact that capital ships are much, much harder to build.

RWittman, right. the BB would lose to a DN. BBs are smaller than DN, but bigger than BCs. You are right about the 4 BC vs a DN. I love that account where Edward Pierre and his 2 BC division got wiped out by that lone DN (see: The Short Victorious War).

[Phoenix-D]

"But in your example you said DN vs BB, DN dies ? "

Uh.. TYPO! Yeah, you're correct.

"Remember that LACs wheren't realy use effectivly till the Manties came up with the fore and aft side walls and the LAC carrier. Not to mention the stealth techology so they could get in close to be effective. Till then, they where mostly Last ditch, system defence ships."

Right, but it's those LACs that relied more on the missile launchers. Eggshells with sledgehammers.

"I know one of the books (hard cover?) shows the relations of ship to each other and the size relation of missle for the diffrent ship sizes."

Got it, using it. They'll be different sized drones, with different sized warheads, ECM mounts, armor/shield (probably shield) etc. Nothing will stop a DD from using a SD's missiles, but it won't be able to carry many of them.

"I love that account where Edward Pierre and his 2 BC division got wiped out by that lone DN (see: The Short Victorious War)."

In one salvo no less..oopsie on their part.

[Phoenix-D]

OK, mounts cannot effect engine speed.. time to think up another propulsion system.

EDIT: got it. This system won't be able to stop a DD from using an SD's nodes.. but I can probably just make the SD's nodes HUGE, so the DD can't really use them.

The 'one per vehicle' restriction works by component family, and it works even if the components are seperated by unrelated components.

So it'll look like:
Small Impeller Drive I-V
Small Beta Node Ring I-V
Impeller Drive I-V
Beta Node Ring I-V
Large Impeller Drive I-V
Large Beta Node Ring I-V
Capital Impeller Drive I-V
Captial Beta Node Ring I-V

The larger the system, the more speed you get, and the worse the supply usage is. And you won't be able to mount more than one Impeller Drive or Beta Node Ring, because they're all the same family. This will confuse the living hell out of the AI, but oh well.

Suggestions on names?

Phoenix-D

[ June 19, 2002, 21:18: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Dead Meat]

Um I think I'm lost. I'm think that the Impeller Ring and Nodes (the drive) are 2 diffrent things. The Ring holds the Nodes right?

What about doing it this way.

Have you concidered using SJ Propulsion system (forget the name. Bigger ship = more engines needed for same movment). IMO this would work well concidering that, while all ships in HH are suppose to reach the same top speed, smaller ships are able to accelrate faster than bigger ships (its in the tech bible).

So propulsion would works like this.

Each ship has to have an Alpha and Beta Impeller Ring (required) that gives you a standard +1 movment point. The size could very depending on the size of the ship or not. I think thats what your getting at with the Small Impeller Node Ring, Imperller Node Ring and Larg Impeller Node Ring, right? If so you could simply name them; DD Impeller Rings, BC Impeller Rings, DN Impeller Rings and so on. While I don't know how to stop someone from using a DD ring on a DN you can make a minaiml size requirement so it can not fit on a smalle ship (which might be a good reason to just have them all the same size, but where the fun in that ). You could also think about having a Impeller Drive reasurch field which is seperate from the normal propulsion field.

Next the Nodes, which if I understand it right, will be like (and work like) normal SE4 engines, just change the name. You could either keep the same size for all the node regardless of the ship size or not. But I don't remember their being any diffrent sizes for DD nodes or DN nodes. I could be wrong, but if i remember correctly how fast a ship was able to accelrate related to not how big its nodes where but how they where placed on the Impeller Ring (you could only space them so close together, but you only had so much hull space to work with). Any of that make sense? My guess is that you would want Alpha and Beta Nodes in which case you might be able to have a requirment of equal number of Alpha and Beta Nodes on the ship. (But the only thing diffrent between Alpha and Beta Nodes is the name)

Thier would have to balance with price/size and how fast you want the ships to move. But I think it could work.

[Phoenix-D]

"Um I think I'm lost. I'm think that the Impeller Ring and Nodes (the drive) are 2 diffrent things. The Ring holds the Nodes right?"

Yes, but right now they're combined into one unit for the sake of simplicity.

"Have you concidered using SJ Propulsion system (forget the name. Bigger ship = more engines needed for same movment). IMO this would work well concidering that, while all ships in HH are suppose to reach the same top speed, smaller ships are able to accelrate faster than bigger ships (its in the tech bible)."

This results in higher top speeds with more engines; I'm not sure you can just slap more nodes in the HH system..you can make them more powerful but add more?

"ship has to have an Alpha and Beta Impeller Ring (required) that gives you a standard +1 movment point. The size could very depending on the size of the ship or not."

Can be varied depending on the NODE size, but not the ship size. SE4 doesn't go there.

"I think thats what your getting at with the Small Impeller Node Ring, Imperller Node Ring and Larg Impeller Node Ring, right? If so you could simply name them; DD Impeller Rings, BC Impeller Rings, DN Impeller Rings and so on. While I don't know how to stop someone from using a DD ring on a DN you can make a minaiml size requirement so it can not fit on a smalle ship (which might be a good reason to just have them all the same size, but where the fun in that )."

Can't restrict them based on ship sizes other than making them not fit; it's why I'm calling them small-Capital rather than DD-SD. It would look a little weird seeing a SD with a DD impeller drive..

"You could also think about having a Impeller Drive reasurch field which is seperate from the normal propulsion field."

The impeller drive field IS the propulsion field in this mod Well, I suppose there are reaction thrusters, but those are so limited I'm not going to bother moding them.

"Next the Nodes, which if I understand it right, will be like (and work like) normal SE4 engines, just change the name. You could either keep the same size for all the node regardless of the ship size or not. But I don't remember their being any diffrent sizes for DD nodes or DN nodes. I could be wrong, but if i remember correctly how fast a ship was able to accelrate related to not how big its nodes where but how they where placed on the Impeller Ring (you could only space them so close together, but you only had so much hull space to work with)."

It depends on the node's *power* IIRC; and I think you're right in that you can't just go slapping nodes wherever you want. Which is why the node ring idea; it doesn't feel right to me to just put in more impeller nodes for more speed. You could have a DN filled with nothing but alpha nodes that way.

"Any of that make sense? My guess is that you would want Alpha and Beta Nodes in which case you might be able to have a requirment of equal number of Alpha and Beta Nodes on the ship. (But the only thing diffrent between Alpha and Beta Nodes is the name)"

Can't be done- you can't require a ship to have anything other the Bridge, Life Support, Crew Quarters, Fighter Bays, Cargo Bays, or colony modules. The Alpha and Beta nodes are different according to Ashes of Victory's tech drawings- the betas are much smaller.

Not sure I follow your system though. If all the impeller drive unit did was provide one movement point.. why bother mounting it?

Phoenix-D