Magic Items under CBM

[Amorphous]

Originally Posted by Sombre

You can't remove the pillage bonus from the axe.

My thinking was more in the line of effectively removing the axe and creating a new weapon with fear and the same look, but no pillage bonus.

Is that not possible?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Amorphous

My thinking was more in the line of effectively removing the axe and creating a new weapon with fear and the same look, but no pillage bonus.

Is that not possible?

Why not just increase the damage and stats on the axe so someone might think about actually making/using one? I mean, so it has a pillaging bonus... whatever. That's not worth anything, so it shouldn't effect our valuation of what it does and what it should do.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Amorphous

My thinking was more in the line of effectively removing the axe and creating a new weapon with fear and the same look, but no pillage bonus.

Is that not possible?

No. It's also pointless, since you can just boost the imp axe and ignore the pillage bonus no-one cares about.

If you want to know what's actually possible rather than having to ask me or assume anything, I suggest looking in the mod manual. In fact no-one should be allowed to post in this thread unless they actually understand what can be done to weapons/items via mod commands.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Sombre

In fact no-one should be allowed to post in this thread unless they actually understand what can be done to weapons/items via mod commands.

Well, I'm glad it's been clarified who is allowed to post in this thread.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Well, I'm glad it's been clarified who is allowed to post in this thread.

Your sarcasm has made me see the light. Let's all suggest things that can't be done and argue with each other about them at great length rather than spend the five minutes or so required to understand the limits of weapon and item modding. You know, by reading the doc readily available to every single person who has patched their game up to date. Expecting people to have done this before weighing in is nearly as unreasonable as expecting people to have used CBM or actually played dominions before posting here.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Your sarcasm has made me see the light.

A sarcastic response to sarcasm. How novel.

Originally Posted by Sombre

Let's all suggest things that can't be done blah, blah, blah.

I could spend time arguing this but it's pointless. It's really very simple. You are not one to let an opportunity for snideness or obnoxiousness pass. It's what you do.

[Amorphous]

Originally Posted by Sombre

No. It's also pointless, since you can just boost the imp axe and ignore the pillage bonus no-one cares about.

Very well, if it cannot be done, the aesthetics of it is rather moot.

Looking at the axe, it really does not seem that bad in itself - fear is a reasonably powerful effect. It seems to me that at least part of the problem is that the Horror Helmet is available at the same level of construction with path requirements that make it likely that anyone able and willing to craft the axe, could craft the helmet instead. Perhaps bumping the helmet up to construction 4 would help.



Now regarding the general situation of 2-handers vs 1-handers and shields, I want to reinforce that cost is important. Sure, you usually build a number of top SCs in each game where a couple of gems here or there does not make any big difference, but at least for thugs, the same gems do matter. If you make a 5-gem 2-hander just as good as the combination of a 5-gem 1-hander and a 10-gem shield, the 2-hander is going to be built in the vast majority of cases.

Also it seems to me that a good number of the 2-handers discussed here are decidedly low-level. And in the early game, a mage turn is a lot more expensive than it is later, relatively speaking. And the number of gems needed is even more critical.

In the end, a construction 4 item should probably see use more often in the game once that level of construction is researched.

If you compare a 5-gem level 0 item to a combination of a 5-gem level level 0 item and a 10 gem level 4 item, the latter should be better in most situations.


Off topic:

Originally Posted by Sombre

If you want to know what's actually possible rather than having to ask me or assume anything, I suggest looking in the mod manual. In fact no-one should be allowed to post in this thread unless they actually understand what can be done to weapons/items via mod commands.

I am sorry if my question rubbed you the wrong way; that was not my intention.

If you do not think relevant or want to answer one of my questions, just ignore it. I am not quite so self-centred that I regard you or anyone as having a duty to answer a question just because I ask it.

It also seems like my wording threw you off and you took my question a bit too literally. In my defence I will say that it never entered my mind that anyone would interpret my words so narrowly as to think I meant using the newweapon-command and adding the ability directly to the structure (hope that was clear enough).

Admittedly I have done very little modding and most of what I have done has concerned monsters, but all the more reason to ask when it comes to magic items, in my opinion. Quite a few things are not exhaustively covered in the modding manual and among them is what items hide at construction 12. For all I know, there could be a number of nifty single-ability items there that could be used on occasions such as this. From your response, though, I gather that this is not the case.

Again, I am sorry if I offended you with my question.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Amorphous

Looking at the axe, it really does not seem that bad in itself - fear is a reasonably powerful effect. It seems to me that at least part of the problem is that the Horror Helmet is available at the same level of construction with path requirements that make it likely that anyone able and willing to craft the axe, could craft the helmet instead. Perhaps bumping the helmet up to construction 4 would help.

Why would you nerf the situationally useful horror helmet? It isn't like it's overused and eclipsing balanced items. It's often useful as is, whereas the imp axe generally isn't, so boost the imp axe. Not rocket science.

I am sorry if my question rubbed you the wrong way

It didn't but your apologies don't read as sincere in the slightest anyway.

It also seems like my wording threw you off and you took my question a bit too literally. In my defence I will say that it never entered my mind that anyone would interpret my words so narrowly as to think I meant using the newweapon-command and adding the ability directly to the structure (hope that was clear enough).

If it never entered your mind, why are you assuming that's how I interpreted it? I just said it isn't possible. Which it isn't, with the caveat that anything is theoretically possible if you're willing to go to ridiculous lengths or accept a messy solution to do something basically pointless.

For instance you could turn Horror Helm, the item, into a replacement for imp axe which wouldn't have the pillage bonus, if you accepted that you'd be losing horror helm just to remove an attribute no-one cares about. Same situation with construction 12 items, if there was even one that just granted fear, it would be a less messy solution to the 'problem' (imp axe having pillage).

[Amorphous]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Why would you nerf the situationally useful horror helmet? It isn't like it's overused and eclipsing balanced items. It's often useful as is, whereas the imp axe generally isn't, so boost the imp axe. Not rocket science.

Because I still see the helmet as useful at construction 4 - I have used it reasonably often in games after having researched past construction 2. And if it were bumped to 4, I would see the axe as an early crafting option. Since there does not seem to be that much agreement about how to improve 2-handers, I think this might be an easy way of doing it.

I can see using the axe with e.g. trample-thugs in the event of such a change.

If it never entered your mind, why are you assuming that's how I interpreted it? I just said it isn't possible.

Some of your later posts led me to believe that you read it like that. If you did not, all the better.

For instance you could turn Horror Helm, the item, into a replacement for imp axe which wouldn't have the pillage bonus, if you accepted that you'd be losing horror helm just to remove an attribute no-one cares about. Same situation with construction 12 items, if there was even one that just granted fear, it would be a less messy solution to the 'problem' (imp axe having pillage).

Thanks, I thought so, but since I have not really tested it, I appreciate the confirmation.

[chrispedersen]

Speaking of the con12 items..

Any utility to lowering them? And/or changing them for more general use in game?