Trading commanders, exploit or not?

[Baalz]

Meh, my views are well known on this, but how about...

Exploiting archer screens?
Exploiting switching the Armor of Virtue to somebody else after the returning has stuck?
Exploiting using a death bless on mages (including ritual spells)?
Exploiting sneak, attack, sneak, attack to avoid almost any retaliation?
Exploiting (potentially) blocking enemy movement by moving a large chaff force into them?
Exploiting moving a smallish force in on the magic phase to get your opponent to burn through gems before the main event in the movement phase?
Exploiting globals going into effect the round they go up?
Exploiting sticking cursed items on suicide commanders to get the enemy to pick them up?
Exploiting IRC all day to gain a big diplomatic advantage?
Exploiting casting spells in combat to take advantage of the deterministic order they go off in a round (reverse communions, etc.)?
Exploiting casting ritual spells to take advantage of the semi-deterministic order they go off?
Exploiting pooling gems for a mutually beneficial global? Dispels?
Deliberately trying to make the target route in an assassination?
Using vengeance of the dead to auto route targets after 50 turns?
Donating gems/items to an ally on your defeat?
Donating gems/items to the guy fighting your next target?
Using scorched earth and metagaming to get a leg up in the next game?
Exploiting autosummoned units (maenads, slaves, etc.) to make your forts practically unstormable?

I could go on. Seems like an exercise in both futility and likely to end in bad blood to try and dictate all the things that "gentlemen" are not supposed to do in war. If it doesn't break the game (and in fact everything discussed in this thread are examples of the quirks that make this game) I think it does far more harm than good to try and claim tactics available in the game are invalid.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Meh, my views are well known on this, but how about...

Exploiting archer screens?

This is sort of fundamental to how game logic currently works, and arguably just how combat works. I don't consider it an exploit.

Exploiting switching the Armor of Virtue to somebody else after the returning has stuck?

Definitely an exploit. Item effects should end when the item is removed.

Exploiting using a death bless on mages (including ritual spells)?

Uh, what? That's just how death bless works? Is it an exploit to use shrouds + N4 bless to stop diseased commanders from dying?

Exploiting sneak, attack, sneak, attack to avoid almost any retaliation?

That's how sneak works... There are plenty of forms of retaliation that still work (eg, mindhunt, earth attack).

Exploiting (potentially) blocking enemy movement by moving a large chaff force into them?

I'm not sure I can consider that an exploit. Its just part of the existing game logic and arguably WAD.

Exploiting moving a smallish force in on the magic phase to get your opponent to burn through gems before the main event in the movement phase?

Seemingly WAD. No way to really enforce since there are other reasons to send a force in the magic phase.

Exploiting globals going into effect the round they go up?

I'm not even sure what this means. Globals just work the turn they go up. You can't change that - how can you exploit it?

Exploiting sticking cursed items on suicide commanders to get the enemy to pick them up?

Agree that its an exploit.

Exploiting IRC all day to gain a big diplomatic advantage?

Lol what? Diplomatic rewards are usually commensurate with diplomatic effort - that's true whether you spend all day on IRC or sending PMs... IRC is just less annoying.

Exploiting casting spells in combat to take advantage of the deterministic order they go off in a round (reverse communions, etc.)?

Not an exploit, its interesting strategically and WAD. Consider horror mark and call horror? How else would you have it work? Predictable spell-casting order is a feature, not an exploit.

Exploiting casting ritual spells to take advantage of the semi-deterministic order they go off?

Well, its 50% top down or bottom up the unit ID list, so I'm not sure how exactly you exploit this unless you feel like wasting gems to cast something twice to ensure a third spell happens after one of them?

Exploiting pooling gems for a mutually beneficial global? Dispels?

How is this an exploit? Its a basic part of diplomacy.

Deliberately trying to make the target route in an assassination?

I imagine its WAD, especially since there's one assassin who seems to be designed to do just that. (Mujina).

Using vengeance of the dead to auto route targets after 50 turns?

This is definitely a balancing feature. Don't kill so many units with your SC pretender already =p

Donating gems/items to an ally on your defeat?

Diplomatic advantage? not an exploit.

Donating gems/items to the guy fighting your next target?

... Diplomacy? Also, payment for services rendered =)

Using scorched earth and metagaming to get a leg up in the next game?

What if you use scorched earth just to spite your killer?

Exploiting autosummoned units (maenads, slaves, etc.) to make your forts practically unstormable?

No way to control this? Your pans make them whether you want them or not... Is also a valid way to build a defense force for if/when your walls are cracked.

[Micah]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Meh, my views are well known on this, but how about...

Exploiting archer screens?
Exploiting switching the Armor of Virtue to somebody else after the returning has stuck?
Exploiting using a death bless on mages (including ritual spells)?
Exploiting sneak, attack, sneak, attack to avoid almost any retaliation?
Exploiting (potentially) blocking enemy movement by moving a large chaff force into them?
Exploiting moving a smallish force in on the magic phase to get your opponent to burn through gems before the main event in the movement phase?
Exploiting globals going into effect the round they go up?
Exploiting sticking cursed items on suicide commanders to get the enemy to pick them up?
Exploiting IRC all day to gain a big diplomatic advantage?
Exploiting casting spells in combat to take advantage of the deterministic order they go off in a round (reverse communions, etc.)?
Exploiting casting ritual spells to take advantage of the semi-deterministic order they go off?
Exploiting pooling gems for a mutually beneficial global? Dispels?
Deliberately trying to make the target route in an assassination?
Using vengeance of the dead to auto route targets after 50 turns?
Donating gems/items to an ally on your defeat?
Donating gems/items to the guy fighting your next target?
Using scorched earth and metagaming to get a leg up in the next game?
Exploiting autosummoned units (maenads, slaves, etc.) to make your forts practically unstormable?

I could go on. Seems like an exercise in both futility and likely to end in bad blood to try and dictate all the things that "gentlemen" are not supposed to do in war. If it doesn't break the game (and in fact everything discussed in this thread are examples of the quirks that make this game) I think it does far more harm than good to try and claim tactics available in the game are invalid.

No, no, no, no of course not, that's the whole POINT of stealth, yes, yes, unavoidable so no, yes, no, no, no, no, no, your number is wrong and no since that's the only real niche the spell has, no, no, depends on the type of metagame, no.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Exploiting sneak, attack, sneak, attack to avoid almost any retaliation?
Exploiting (potentially) blocking enemy movement by moving a large chaff force into them?
Exploiting moving a smallish force in on the magic phase to get your opponent to burn through gems before the main event in the movement phase?

I agree with the rest of your list, but you consider these exploits? Err huh? Basically you don't like Pangaea that much then, do you? These are the standard tactics for Pangaea (raid with sneaky armies, block armies with maeanads, cast call of the wild before the main attack)?

If these would be considered exploits, I'd like to see someone explain how you can play with Pangaea. Using sneaky forces and maenads and remote spells *is* what Pangaea is about, at least in my opinion. Means Pangaea can recuit Minotaur commanders and Minotaurs trooper only, huh?

I am honestly quite baffled.