Bug or Feature: Multiple Ship Training Facilities

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Puke:
...if all the other reasons below were not good enough, maybe there can be better training from having access to multiple astronomical bodies in one sector. being able to manuver around multiple planets / moons and their gravity would create a wider variety of traning scenarios than would be available at just a single planet...

I had the exact same thought Last night at the IRC chat...

...wait... does that mean I think like Puke does... ?

AAAAARRGH...

* Rollo runs away screaming

[ July 08, 2002, 10:09: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Spuzzum:
Just because something lets you do something, doesn't mean it's right. If that wasn't the case, then I could go out right now, get a ferry ride to Vancouver Island, and shoot Premier Gordon Campbell (our Liberal provincial moron/leader). I sure as heck could do it (and believe me, I really want to!), but I wouldn't because it isn't the right thing to do*. ;-)

That argument is false Spuzzum. What you are missing is that this isn't just a matter of a game flaw allowing you to do something you aren't supposed to be able to do. The game doesn't say you aren't supposed to be able to do this. You are making an assumption based on incomplete evidence.

You may be capable of assasinating the PM, but you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's against the laws of Canada and the inalienable laws of mankind.

Just because you say it's wrong to have multiple training faciliites doesn't meean it is wrong. If a future patch were made that made it against the rules, but because of a mistake the fix didn't work and you still could do it, then it would be an exploit and cheating to continue doing it. Until then it is clearly not.

If I arbitrarily say it's unfair to attack an enemy without warning, or without giving them time to prepare defenses, do you have to not do that? Would you be cheating if you did it? Of course not.

Geoschmo

[Gryphin]

Setting aside the arguments of:
Is it cheating?
Is it realistic?

Since there is some disagreement on its use, In a game against humans it should be part of a “Gentlmans agreement” to use or not.
Since, (and correct me if I’m wrong), The AI does not use them, I feel it would be unsporting to use them. Just the way I see it.

[geoschmo]

Totally agree with that Gyphin. Although you could say it's unsporting to play against the AI period and I wouldn't disagree.

But if you are playing the AI, and you want a good tough fight you shouldn't use the training facilities at all, because if they use them it will be by accident. It should be easy enough to get them to build the facilitiy, but I don't think they can make the decision to park their fleets in orbit to get the benifit of them.

If an agreement is made for a specific game to not use them, or to only use one per sector, then by all means you should abide by that. But noone should assume that agreement is in place, or call someone a cheater for doing this when it has not been prohibited.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

[quote]Originally posted by TerranC:

Also: That Proper training thing?

If that was true, United States of America would be the Dominion of American States.

Also, if that was true, Vietnam would have been operation speedy resolution.

Not a flame but just correcting some flaws.

Ah, but TerranC you are missing a critical point of both your examples. The British army in 1776, and the American Army in Vietnam had more training than their opponents. But it was the wrong kind of training. They were woefully undertrained for the particular kind of fight they found themself ingaged in, and paid dearly. This is a point that doesn't translate well into a game like SEIV.

In the few European style set-piece battles the British and Americans fought, the British did very well. It was only when the American forces modified their tactics that they began to have success. Then the guerilla tactics, constant harrasment, large distances in supply lines, and public disatisfaction at home took the fight out of the British army and made the outcome we had possible.

Ditto in Vietnam, just switch the players...

Geoschmo

[Growltigga]

[quote]Originally posted by geoschmo:

Then the guerilla tactics, constant harrasment, large distances in supply lines, and public disatisfaction at home took the fight out of the British army and made the outcome we had possible.
Geoschmo

Please dont forget the fact that we were also at war with pretty much all of mainland europe at the time and could not devote anything more than token forces to the [defence] of America

Your point is right however. The Americans tried to take on the British in the conventional style of warfare of the day and the result was, to be fair, a slaughter. When that happens, you need to change tactics dramatically and that is where you get the learning differential the loser adopts.. Mastering that learning curve means the side that doesnt have it gets whomped

And this brings me on cunningly to a recent analogy that happened to me on the hot seat game I am playing with the cat. My highly trained beam armed fleet ran right into the teeth of her missile armed/fighter conVersions and the PDC's on my ships just couldnt things down quick enough - my targeting priority was fighters so the missiles just swamped my ships - that cost me 2 pilchards and a tin of hi-life mackerel

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Growltigga:
Please dont forget the fact that we were also at war with pretty much all of mainland europe at the time and could not devote anything more than token forces to the [defence] of America

We will give you that, if you acknowledge that the powers that be at the time drastically underestimated the Colonists fighting ability and spirit in that they thought those "token" forces would be more than enough. The British army made one crucial mistake in the War of Independance. They forgot the colonists were British themselves. The Union made the same mistake a hundred years later against the Confederacy. Had we had 2000 miles of ocean between us instead of just the Ohio and Patomac Rivers I have no doubt that war would have ended similerly.

You play SEIV against your cat? How does his performance stack up against that of the AI?

Geoschmo