Bug or Feature: Multiple Ship Training Facilities

[Pax]

Originally posted by Spuzzum:
The game doesn't necessarily say you can, either. You can simply do it due to an unforeseen circumstance.

Then again, the game doesn't specifically say you can combine Shard Cannons and Shield Disruptors, now, does it?

The problem here is not the fact that the game doesn't officially say that it's wrong -- it's the fact that the game definitely makes the implication that there should only ever be one training facility per sector, since the normal circumstance is to have only one planet per sector. I agree that saying something is wrong doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong, but finding a scapegoat doesn't make things right either.

Not true. In basic, unMODded SEIV (v1.49), moons aren't vanishingly rare. I'd say any planet has about a 50/50 chance to have one or more moons. Ergo, a sector has only a 50/50 chance of having only one world.

IMO if it had beenintended that only one such facility would be effective per sector, then it would have been designed as such, and stated as such.

Unfair things are not quite the same as unintended things.

The game was designed with diplomacy and backstabbing in mind. It wasn't designed with the intent to allow people to build facilities on multiple planets in the same sector to gain a greater advantage.

Actually, neither you nor I can attest to the intent of the program, without either (a) proving that one or the other of us is/was, in fact, one fo the programmers responsible for producing SEIV or SEIV/Gold ... or (b) via/supported by direct testimony fromsomeone who WAS a programmer for SEIV or SEIV/Gold.

So I'm sorry, you cannot legitimately state as if it were fact, that it was or was not the "intent" of the facilities to work, or not work, when stacked in a multiple-world sector.

(edit for UBBcode error, oops)

[ July 11, 2002, 05:21: Message edited by: Pax ]

[Captain Kwok]

Actually, moons are equally rare in both the Standard and Gold Versions of SE4. The actually entries haven't changed...that's why you always get that huge planet with two moons with the same number of planet systems etc...

I recommend trying Fyron's Quad Mod...it adds more systemtypes and moons...if you like that kind of thing.

[Spuzzum]

It all boils down to what's fair, in the end -- taking advantage of that oversight is definitely unfair, in my opinion. Shard cannons and shield depleters don't convey an unfair advantage, since you spent all of the work to research them and everything, so you have every right to stick them on the same ship.

Putting multiple training facilities in a single location, on the other hand, requires no real in-game resources -- it's a trick masterminded by a player. You didn't earn that ability to build multiple things in the same sector; you discovered it out-of-character, then manipulated it to your whims.

I can't say that I speak for Aaron, but isn't this common sense? The whole ploy is a lot like Microsoft, in a way -- if they find a convenient little loophole that allows them to defeat their competitors, it might be legal, but they're still a tyrant.


In any case, being a newbie around here, I doubt anyone will take me very seriously, so I'll withdraw from this argument before I start getting pithy and annoyed. ;-P

[Fyron]

In any case, being a newbie around here, I doubt anyone will take me very seriously, so I'll withdraw from this argument before I start getting pithy and annoyed. ;-P

It matters not if you are a newbie. Your words are as valid as anyone else's (except maybe Aaron Hall himself ).

[Nodachi]

It all boils down to what's fair, in the end -- taking advantage of that oversight is definitely unfair, in my opinion.

How is it unfair if everyone can do it?

[Pax]

Originally posted by Spuzzum:
It all boils down to what's fair, in the end -- taking advantage of that oversight is definitely unfair, in my opinion. Shard cannons and shield depleters don't convey an unfair advantage, since you spent all of the work to research them and everything, so you have every right to stick them on the same ship.

What you originally asserted was to the effect of, "since the game does not explicitly allow it, it should be considered implicitly forbidden" ... which is a whole 'nother bag ofmonkeys than the above.

As for earning teh 'right' to use it: well, you have to (a) find a two-moon world, (b) build three colonisers ships of the proper type, (c) spend minerals to build the requisite facilities (to get maximum benefit you must conver the atmosphere, which means not only minerals for the facility, but tons of research too!). Then you likely have to invest significant resources into defending the sector, and the system it is in ... because, if you defend the sector but leave the system open to stellar manipulation, you are begging to have a new nebula or black hole created ...

Putting multiple training facilities in a single location, on the other hand, requires no real in-game resources -- it's a trick masterminded by a player. You didn't earn that ability to build multiple things in the same sector; you discovered it out-of-character, then manipulated it to your whims.

See above for rebuttal of in-game resources issue.

The combination of shield disruptors and shard cannons is also from an "out of character" observation, so that objection isn't one I'll even bother rebutting (no offense meant).

I can't say that I speak for Aaron, but isn't this common sense? The whole ploy is a lot like Microsoft, in a way -- if they find a convenient little loophole that allows them to defeat their competitors, it might be legal, but they're still a tyrant.

The thing is, this isn't a loophole. Maybe it is unintentional behavior. However, maybe it is entirely intentional ... ! After all, short of atmosphere conVersion, moons aren't worth all that much, really.

In any case, being a newbie around here, I doubt anyone will take me very seriously, so I'll withdraw from this argument before I start getting pithy and annoyed. ;-P

No more a newbie than I am. I've been here less than a week, myself!

[PvK]

My opinion is that it doesn't make sense that the only way to stack training facility abilities is to colonize a planet and moon at the same location. It's rather difficult for me to rationalize how that would make any sense. So, I'd say it's a bug. Either that, or it's a bug not to be able to do it on a single planet.

PvK