Shinuyama – the ants go marching two by two…

[Squirrelloid]

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means that taking production scales with order scales is better than production scales without order scales. (Ie, it ends up being more than a 9% increase).

Basically, its not x + x*.21 + x*.09, its x*1.21*1.09.

The most obvious conclusion is that taking any scale with an income impact actually has a larger impact when combined with other income scale modifiers than it would by itself. So if you want to maximize income, you can't take negative income modifiers at all, and want to take as many positive scales as possible.

Ex. 21+9+9=39% is the perceived income effect, but the actual is 1.21*1.09*1.09 = 1.438, or 44% more income

Ex. 21 - 9 - 9 = +3% perceived income effect, actual is 1.21*.91*.91 = 1.002, or 0.2% more income

So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means that taking production scales with order scales is better than production scales without order scales. (Ie, it ends up being more than a 9% increase).

Basically, its not x + x*.21 + x*.09, its x*1.21*1.09.

The most obvious conclusion is that taking any scale with an income impact actually has a larger impact when combined with other income scale modifiers than it would by itself. So if you want to maximize income, you can't take negative income modifiers at all, and want to take as many positive scales as possible.

Ex. 21+9+9=39% is the perceived income effect, but the actual is 1.21*1.09*1.09 = 1.438, or 44% more income

Ex. 21 - 9 - 9 = +3% perceived income effect, actual is 1.21*.91*.91 = 1.002, or 0.2% more income

So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

I don't see how Baalz is refuting this really? He purposely keeps the exact build up to the player. With a strategy like this you can take growth instead of prod for much greater income boost, and with no sloth you can still field some Dai Bakemonos.

I am a bit curious about the vampire commanders though, are you sure they're fatigue aura doesn't effect your own troops? In any case, they can be great artillery in their own right as you give them anything from piercers to acid staves. Throw on quickness from an Uba or boots and you've got some pretty good precision hits from non-mages.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Regarding maximizing income:
Income modifiers are compounded, which means...

...So taking production scales is actually worth doing, although if you're purely maximizing income, i'd take growth first. You certainly don't take a negative income scale.

Good to know I guess.

However, this is not an argument in the issue of dai vs. sho.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Good to know I guess.

However, this is not an argument in the issue of dai vs. sho.

It was not meant to be. Sorry, that was meant to be an informative post. And is really just part of my 'you can do both, and probably should' argument.

[Belac]

On the 'using castle turns to recruit Shuten-Doji' question, there should be ample time to recruit them instead of Bakemono Sorcerers: When you haven't yet built a lab in the fort, and when you don't have enough money (because you have lots of forts and are recruiting Bakemono Sorcerers from several).

So somewhere in your empire, at some point, there should always be a place where you can recruit non-mage commanders.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Belac

On the 'using castle turns to recruit Shuten-Doji' question, there should be ample time to recruit them instead of Bakemono Sorcerers: When you haven't yet built a lab in the fort, and when you don't have enough money (because you have lots of forts and are recruiting Bakemono Sorcerers from several).

So somewhere in your empire, at some point, there should always be a place where you can recruit non-mage commanders.

I don't usually build forts without labs or from which I can't build a mage commander every turn, unless there's a specific non-mage commander that its worth building a fort or forts specifically for. (I can think of some examples - a fort pumping out spies is never a bad thing, nor is Jotunheim building a temple-fort for Jotun Jarl thugs.)

I honestly have no specific opinion on shuten-doji, although I'd be inclined against building a fort specifically for them.