Spells that arguably break the game

[LDiCesare]

Burden of Time shouldn't be an issue. You can Dispel it. You can also probably get everyone but Atlantis, Ermor and such long lived races to contribute so you can cast it with an additional 999 gems and be sure it's dispelled. You can also try to kill the mage who cast it, for instance by spamming earth attacks and other assassination spells on the province the caster is in.
You can also use boots of youth, rituals to resuscitate your D mages to simply counter some of the effect.

As for the general suggestions, there's a game called threeforts running with settings that look like this. But even then, the most gamebreaking spells are master enslave and all the teleport-like spells.

Offensive globals: Not really a problem. People who cast it will get ganged upon, enchantments will be dispelled. Even a lot of Armageddon wishes doesn't ruin the game. These are good imo, as they can help end the game faster.

Gem rituals: Well, they give a boost to the nation that can cast it indeed but it's an investment, and can be dispelled. The players who can put them up and keep them deserve the gems. They are somewhat unabalanced because if you get a capital revenue like MA Mictlan you're less likely to cast such a spell than if your revenue is all nature for instance, but nations can be balanced in other ways.

Remote unrest spells are about the only way to shut some capitals, and you can put up domes to prevent these. That's really easy to counter in important provinces (domes) so it's not an issue.

Assassin spells are a pain but bodyguards, bottles of living water, domes, all help. Assassin spells targetted at a SC that just conquered a province are much more painful. This is the only suggestion that I might agree with. Even then, there are counters (teleport/cloud trapeze a SC and then give orders to attack to 10 scouts into that province so the scouts get targeted, not the SC).

Overall, there are counters to all spells. There is strategy in countering them. There is strategy in researching them, making sure you don't spend your gems on something else, making sure you have a caster that can cast them (Flames from the Sky's not everyone's spell for instance), making sure you spend enough gems to not get dispelled, or that the dispellers will waste more than what you invested...

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

You can also use boots of youth, rituals to resuscitate your D mages to simply counter some of the effect.

Just tested it, Boots of youth or Elixirs of Life do absolutely nothing to prevent the global aging effect of BoT. So, if you're abysia, even a single casting of BoT will be pretty much GG as all your mages that can do something worthile get diseased pretty much instantly.

[Amadamus]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Just tested it, Boots of youth or Elixirs of Life do absolutely nothing to prevent the global aging effect of BoT. So, if you're abysia, even a single casting of BoT will be pretty much GG as all your mages that can do something worthile get diseased pretty much instantly.

Yep boots of youth do nothing to stave of BoT... there is no recourse. Thats what is rubbing me about it. Through no superior skill, my effective game is over.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Just tested it, Boots of youth or Elixirs of Life do absolutely nothing to prevent the global aging effect of BoT. So, if you're abysia, even a single casting of BoT will be pretty much GG as all your mages that can do something worthile get diseased pretty much instantly.

That sounds broken...

[RadicalTurnip]

I agree that BoT is slightly powerful, but the reason it is so powerful is that it hurts everyone. It just hurts some nations more because they have old mages. Rings of regen is a good counter to disease, btw.

But no, I don't want them taking any of that out. That "4 gem ritual" usually has to be spammed, making it...what, a 20-gem ritual? Plus 5 mage-turns that have at least 3 astral, plus hopefully some +pen items (or more astral). I love the "sit-back and wait for people to attack me so I can teach them the folly of doing so" tactic.

And yes, your capital should be nearly unassailable, I usually have Dome of Flaming Death (or the ice one) and at least one other dome up. That means that anyone that tries to hit it usually gets hit themselves.

You can always script your mages with returning...1S gem for complete assassination protection seems more overpowered than all your assassinate spells.

[Amadamus]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

Burden of Time shouldn't be an issue. You can Dispel it. You can also probably get everyone but Atlantis, Ermor and such long lived races to contribute so you can cast it with an additional 999 gems and be sure it's dispelled. You can also try to kill the mage who cast it, for instance by spamming earth attacks and other assassination spells on the province the caster is in.
You can also use boots of youth, rituals to resuscitate your D mages to simply counter some of the effect.

As for the general suggestions, there's a game called threeforts running with settings that look like this. But even then, the most gamebreaking spells are master enslave and all the teleport-like spells.

Offensive globals: Not really a problem. People who cast it will get ganged upon, enchantments will be dispelled. Even a lot of Armageddon wishes doesn't ruin the game. These are good imo, as they can help end the game faster.

Gem rituals: Well, they give a boost to the nation that can cast it indeed but it's an investment, and can be dispelled. The players who can put them up and keep them deserve the gems. They are somewhat unabalanced because if you get a capital revenue like MA Mictlan you're less likely to cast such a spell than if your revenue is all nature for instance, but nations can be balanced in other ways.

Remote unrest spells are about the only way to shut some capitals, and you can put up domes to prevent these. That's really easy to counter in important provinces (domes) so it's not an issue.

Assassin spells are a pain but bodyguards, bottles of living water, domes, all help. Assassin spells targetted at a SC that just conquered a province are much more painful. This is the only suggestion that I might agree with. Even then, there are counters (teleport/cloud trapeze a SC and then give orders to attack to 10 scouts into that province so the scouts get targeted, not the SC).

Overall, there are counters to all spells. There is strategy in countering them. There is strategy in researching them, making sure you don't spend your gems on something else, making sure you have a caster that can cast them (Flames from the Sky's not everyone's spell for instance), making sure you spend enough gems to not get dispelled, or that the dispellers will waste more than what you invested...

My point is these spells propose a gamey element not that they can't be used or countered.

So what is the point of having the spell if every one will jsut band to gether to dispel it? Isnt that just a micromanagment issue? When the game is humming along nicely out comes BoT - great, now we have to organise a caster and gems etc... It doesn't add to the game experience it detracts from it and forces players to go through the hastle of getting rid off it. Mean time a player with a half decent start enjoying a competitive war gets crapped on and all that potential evaporates becasue of one spell.

Removing the gem gens in CBM removes a few head aches and micro issues, but the real benefit of it is that to get more gems you have to conquer more lands. Globals just provide gems for nothing really. Sure you have to make a sacrifice to put it up, but they pay for themselves quickly so its not that big a risk.

The issue of the games finishing quicker is moot if you adopt different ending conditions. I don't believe there needs to be full domination - 50 or 60% of capitals will suffice for victory. Pulling out big globals and remote spells is a crap way to finish a long strategic struggle.

A big part of the fun in dominions is watching the battle replay - seeing if your tactics prevail - hoping your heros survive another battle, These spells ensure that the outcome of the game is determined by impersonal mechanics - I am struggling to see how their inclusion benefits the game.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Amadamus

My point is these spells propose a gamey element not that they can't be used or countered.

So you're saying there's no way, in world, a mage couldn't contact a powerful being and send it to kill an enemy commander? Or try to find his mind from afar and snuff it? Seriously, they make as much sense as anything else...

So what is the point of having the spell if every one will jsut band to gether to dispel it? Isnt that just a micromanagment issue? When the game is humming along nicely out comes BoT - great, now we have to organise a caster and gems etc... It doesn't add to the game experience it detracts from it and forces players to go through the hastle of getting rid off it. Mean time a player with a half decent start enjoying a competitive war gets crapped on and all that potential evaporates becasue of one spell.

Diplomacy. Diplomacy is the point of the spell. If you can't get the requisite gems together it means: (1) Your opponent is winning anyway and the spell lets him do it faster, this is good. (2) Your diplomacy failed. He has too many allies who'd rather have his spell stay up (possibly because you or someone else is scarier), and thus won't contribute to dispelling it. If neither of those is true, you should be able to bring it down. Its not micromanagement though, diplomacy is a critical aspect of the game, and you should be forced to conduct it to deal with sufficiently dangerous threats.

Removing the gem gens in CBM removes a few head aches and micro issues, but the real benefit of it is that to get more gems you have to conquer more lands. Globals just provide gems for nothing really. Sure you have to make a sacrifice to put it up, but they pay for themselves quickly so its not that big a risk.

Gems from globals are (1) not invisible and (2) are vulnerable to 'attack', either by being overcast or by killing the caster or by being dispelled. And if you put it up with more gems than minimal, the risk of not making back your investment is very real.

The issue of the games finishing quicker is moot if you adopt different ending conditions. I don't believe there needs to be full domination - 50 or 60% of capitals will suffice for victory. Pulling out big globals and remote spells is a crap way to finish a long strategic struggle.

So put them up first? If your opponent manages to distract you from the big picture by complicating the little picture, and then throws up a game changing global, whose fault is it that you weren't prepared to deal with it? Oh right, yours. You can pre-emptively occupy all the global slots to prevent people from throwing up globals, you know.

A big part of the fun in dominions is watching the battle replay - seeing if your tactics prevail - hoping your heros survive another battle, These spells ensure that the outcome of the game is determined by impersonal mechanics - I am struggling to see how their inclusion benefits the game.

Because a lot of these spells fill necessary niches. Stealth raiders would be pretty broken if not for mindhunt. Oh no, the horrors, it makes you forge AMAs for all those stealth raiders. Making raiding more costly over time is a good thing - your opponent should be able to fight back, after all!

Finally, a lot of these spells add a real strategic element to the game. Some of us enjoy the strategic aspect at least as much as the tactical aspect. Wars are not just fought with armies, they are fought with propaganda, information, morale, production, key leaders, etc... all of these things should be open to attack.