Modhack Modifier querry

[AxisWarlord]

4. DATA

Excerpt From Wolfgang Feischer's 'PANZERFAUST and other German Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons'
- 1994 Schiffer Publishing Ltd.

"Production of the Panzerbuchse 38 was begun in 1938. It had a complicated breech and was delivered only in small numbers. In Poland there were 62 in service. The simplified Panzerbuchse 39 followed in 1939 and was introduced among the Panzerbuchse troops of the rifle companies. 9,645 of these weapons reached the troops in 1940.
{568 PzB 39 were used by the german army in the invasion of Poland (Brandenburg/FJg Only); two years later, at the beginning of the war against russia, 25,298 PzB 39 were in use by german troops; total production form March 1940 to November 1941, when production ceased, was 39,232 rifles.
Per http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ww2...-a-7069-2.html }

Both Panzerbuchse types fired the {Patrone 318} 7.92mm SmK H Rs L-Spur cartridge.
The bullet, weighing 14.6 grams, could penetrate steel 25mm thick.
{With the Pzb 39 a new round was introduced, the Patrone 318 SmK(H) Rs L'spur, used by both PzB 38/39.
SmK meant 'Spitzgeschoss mit Kern' (pointed bullet with core),
SmK(H) = 'Spitzgeschoss mit Kern (Hart)' (pointed bullet with core (Hard)) meant the same projectile that featured a tungsten-carbide core,
Rs stood for 'Reizstoff' (irritant agent) because the projectile also contained a small amount of tear gas,
L'spur for 'Leuchtspur' (bright trace = tracer) indicating the bullet had a small tracer in its rear.
Patrone 318; Vo 1,210 m/s; armor penetration 30mm of homogeneus plate at 100m with the Tugsten core
and 28 mm with the steel core bullet.
Production of the Patrone 318 ran until August 1942.} (See 5. PRODUCTION.)

Its use against tanks was questionable from the start, for at this time the transition to armor that was secure from shells was completed. This cast doubt on the whole question of the continuing development of earlier Panzerbuchse types, which as still going on then, including those with calibres of up to 20mm.

This also sealed the fate of the Waffen-SS designs, which included a 7.92mm Panzerbuchse, the M SS 41. The Panzerbuchse M SS 41 resulted from a Waffen SS contract . . . It was also made to fire the 318 SmK H Rs L-Spur (caliber 7.92mm) cartridge.
Russian armoured scout cars and light T-26 tanks could be attacked successfully with it at distances from 20 to 50 meters. Despite well-aimed penetrating shots, it rarely put the tank out of action.
This made the further development of the 38, 39 and M SS 41 Panzerbuchse questionable.

The heavy Panzerbuchse 41 (sPzB41 - used by FJg and Geb units), which came close to the antitank guns in terms of its size and weight and exceeded them in penetrating power, is also noteworthy.

The Red Army had more than 18,000 tanks, including 1,225 T-34 and 636 KV types with shell-safe armor plate. (Like the UK's Matilda,) They lowered the 3.7cm Pak gun to a mere 'tank door-knocking device' and caused complicated combat situations even in the first days of the campaign. Suddenly there was an acute shortage of effective antitank weapons, even the new 5cm Pak 38 was not sufficient.

The infantry suffered particularly from tank attacks. At times panic resulted, in which fear of tanks spread . . . new and effective weapons and combat methods were needed. From then on, the equipping of the infantry with modern close-combat weapons was given more attention. It was not easy to achieve this.
Already existing antitank weapons with heavy bullets had no perspective.

That was shown by the Panzerbuchse 39. {Given the limited efficience of the 7.92mm Patrone 318 in the mid war years it was decided to convert many of remaining Pzb 39s into grenade launching rifles - the Gr.B.39.
That meant the way to defeat armor became hollow charge grenades instead of kinetic energy, hard core bullets.
Starting 1942, the PzB 39 were rebuilt with a shortened barrel (59cm) and an affixed schiessbecher (grooved rifle grenade launching attachment) as grenade rifles with the designation Granatenbuchse Modell 39 ('grenade rifle model 39'). The grenade was frontally loading while the chamber was loaded with a special blank cartrigde for projection purposes (treisspatrone). The rifle could also launch the standard explosive, marking or training grenades that were also used by the K-98K.
Per (Good info source) http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/show...ineguns./page5 }
Every grenadier company was supposed to receive three Granatbuchse 39.

The heavy Panzerbuchse 41 {sPzB41}, with a weight of 229 kilograms, was too heavy, as well as much too expensive and complex to produce. In the autumn of 1941, numerous efforts to develop new antitank weapons began.
By 1943, an almost unimaginable variety of them existed."

EFFECTIVE RANGE excerpt from PANZERFAUST - p47.
a) - PzB 38/39 - 25mm Pen to 300 meters;
b) - PTRD/PTRS - 30mm Pen to 100 meters;
(Although, based on above results with WH=1, I think range should likely be adjusted to 12 vs 14. Thoughts? )
c) - PzB M SS 41 - N/A;
d) - PzB 770(p) - 30mm Pen to 100 meters.
(Although 50m based on Calc above with WH=1 seems reasonable, especially as they were phased out of German usage after the French 1940 campaign.)

[CONT]

[AxisWarlord]

5. PRODUCTION
{Also, per http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/panzerbuchsen-R.htm}
{Panzerbüchsen-Fertigung (production) in WW2:

1939 1940 1941 1942 1943
Panzerbüchse 38
703 705 -- -- --
Panzerbüchse 39
-- <1,000 9,645 29,587 -- --
Gr.B.39 (grenade launcher ver)
-- -- -- 1,416 26,607
schwere Panzerbüchse 41 (sPzB 41)
-- 90 339 1,029 1,324

Die Munitionsfertigung für die Panzer-Büchsen 38 und 39 sowie für die schwere Panzerbüchse 41
(in 1.000 Schuß)
Ammunition production for ATR PzB 38/39 and for sPzB 41 Squeeze-bore gun (in 1,000 shots):
1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944
Patrone 318:
780,0 1,864,1 4,726,9 2,046,4 -- --
s.Pz.B. 41 Sprenggranate(HE):
-- -- 9,2 373,3 130,1 --
s.Pz.B. 41 Panzergranate(Sabot):
-- 156,2 889,5 270,0 287,1 -- }

An approx 1 : 3.12 sPZB 41 ratio of HE vs Sabot.

Also,
**Modify Wpn #10 to probable 8 HE Kill Value to allow for sPzB 41 Sprenggranate HE, and more correct Wpn name 2.8cm sPzB41/61 to reflect wheeled / mounted usage.**


All in all, a fairly convincing argument to use the WH=1 Value for ATRs,
**with the modifications/corrections as noted above,**
as ATRs should not be big tank killers.
Beyond their effective range, relatively short for most rifles, as shown on P47 of PANZERFAUST and excerpted above,
ATRs were only usefull for harrassing during their interim lifespan until more effective AT wpns came along.

I think this helps demonstrate my point,
and shows I only talk about something after ensuring extensive research.


VIP Note: Minor Name Revisions will make more sense once I submit the revised German OOB, for which I also base my revisions using detailed data from Jentz, Speilberger, KSTNs, etc.

I have already revised the Pzkw IV units, Armd Car units and PzAufkl units as to proper Armour and Ammo loadouts, Armor and dates, and minor re-sorting classes and will submit revised German OOB once Pzkw III, Panther and HT revisions are complete, and of course, fully documented per forum instructions.

I have even added in many missing AC Fu(4,6,8), Pzkw Befhls III & IV and Pzkw Beob III & IV units
- plus, 2 prototype Pzkw IIGvk903 and Panther Beob.
This of course includes new Aufkl formations to reflect those missing or incorrect,
and any revised formations affected by any Wpn or unit changes or reorganization due to KSTN or availability.

ie. As an example, I give you the Schuerzen (steel or mesh skirting on tanks) ratings that are way off.
How is the Pzkw IV with Schuerzen any better or equally armoured on the Hull Side than the thicker Panther II with same Schuerzen??
Meanwhile, the Pzkw IVF Vorpanzer is not even represented in the game??

Will Explain fully when I submit
- still having to compare unit by unit and formation by formation with the revised OOB that you guys snuck in during the middle of revising. Grumble, Grumble, Grumble.
Although, I really like the new #200 - Sfl. Sturer Emil addition!
and the T-70 is ok.

Regards,
AXISWARLORD

[AxisWarlord]

Don,

As to your comment re:
'not understanding how the game is put together which that "HE instead of AP for AT weapons" and "placement of said tanks in correct Class types" remarks seems to indicate',
please note the "HE instead of AP for AT weapons" refers to the following units with Incorrect Ammo (HE) vs (AP) placement for Anti-Tank Ammo and confirmed by the above noted 'PANZERFAUST' reference as purely AT Wpns, Not HE Wpn:

Unit #354 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot 4 - Wpn #184 - Panzerhandmine 3 with 130mm Pen ability.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 97, 177, 206, 213, 257, 287, 292, 511, 512, 716, 725, 757 and 766 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #694 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #186 - improved Panzerhandmine 4 with 150mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 639, 649, 654, 659, 664, 674, 684, 690, 717, 758, 767 and 798 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #695 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #222 - Panzerwurfmine L with 100mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 640, 650, 655, 660, 665, 675, 685, 689, and 797 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

Unit #696 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #223 - imporved Panzerwurfmine K with 150mm Pen ability.
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 641, 651, 656, 661, 666, 676, 686, 691, and 799 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.

and Lastly,
Unit #697 - PzAufkl Grp - Slot - Wpn #224 - Hafthohlladung 3 with 140mm Pen ability.
(I noticed the Hafthohlladung 3.5 with 170mm Pen ability is not used in the game??)
Again, the same problem as above.
**Please Delete the 2 HE and Replace with 2 AP.**

- This conforms to Unit #s: 642, 652, 657, 662, 667, 677, 687, 692, and 800 that have this Wpns Ammo listed in the AP slot.
The remaining Panzerknacker or PzVernTp units natually have this listed as HEAT ammo.


Regards,
AXISWARLORD

PS: Besides, if I shot off at the mouth without researching, or understanding what I'm talking about, I would not have been able to have some 32 articles published in Defence Magazines, incl:
CdnDefQuarterly; Vanguard; CdnDefReview; AirIntl and online SAOC website.
Plus, even a wargaming article 'Adding Realism to Stalingrad Pocket (I)' in 'Operations the Wargaming Journal'.

Cheers!

[DRG]

Originally Posted by AxisWarlord

ie. As an example, I give you the Schuerzen (steel or mesh skirting on tanks) ratings that are way off.
How is the Pzkw IV with Schuerzen any better or equally armoured on the Hull Side than the thicker Panther II with same Schuerzen??
Meanwhile, the Pzkw IVF Vorpanzer is not even represented in the game??

PLEASE try not to be tiresome by "assuming"

The Panther II has the same Schuerzen rating on the side hull as the Pzkw IV becasue when the Schuerzen ratings were upgraded to the new specs the Panther II was missed ( yes, it's that simple, not some jaw dropping OMG-how-could-they-do THAT design decision.)

The real way to get our attention is to simply point out the error and why it's wrong and leave the smartass somewhere else. I've dealt with all types of people who have reported errors and this is looking like it's developing into the type that ends badly. Prove me wrong.

As for the Pzkw IVF Vorpanzer why not mention the E is missing as well ? Please tell us the production figures for that limited production spaced armour configuation


Don