The Gorn Imperium

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, it would be smarter to go to the Online store, here: http://www.starfleetstore.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=S&Categ ory_Code=M to see the pewter miniatures if you want to duplicate the SFB ship designs.

But really, does it matter if this Gorn set is not just like SFB? Who said SFB was cannon? Did a Gorn ship ever appear in the actual Trek series or movies? I don't think so. Which means the race is open to interpretation.

[ July 20, 2002, 02:05: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Fyron]

Wasn't there a Gorn ship in the episode where Kirk and the Gorn captain fought? Or did we not ever get to see it?

[Puke]

since official star trek canon is written by paramount, im inclined to accept any interpretation wither it comes from a board game, a computer game, or a fan. the idea that paramount gets to put their jackboot down on whats-what in the trek universe is appaling to me, especially given their horrible creative direction.

if someone wants to say that the gorn wear pink bunny ears and dress up in french-maid outfits when they are off duty, thats fine by me.

good golly man, i played SFB when it was published by FASA. the idea that someone is a trek pureist because they cling to an outdated, rules-heavy game made off a license for a TV show, is just an absurdity.

now i like trek, and i like SFB. and i like the darned shipset too. take a laxitive.

[Atrocities]

Um, these Gorn are um, Post STNG era. That is why the ships look differant.

Hey look, I did not think that I was going to stir the hornets nest with this set. It is extremely hard to develop a cannon race based upon small images, no referances, and horrible shots. CASE IN POINT

I have made several Star Trek sets that are not cannon. That is to say, they are as close to cannon as I can make them, and since I have never before seen a Gorn ship, I opted to make them the way I felt they would look based upon my view of the Gorn.

Hell, the Andorian, Hirogen, Kazon, and an un-goddly amount of other ships were developed by me with nothing to work on except my imagination. So if this set is not up to your liking, please by all means, make a new set. I will gladly use it in my games. Until then, I hope my imagination will surfice.

I really, really wish people making Trek shipsets using the races from Star Fleet Battles would do some research about said race as it appears in Star Fleet Battles.

Pax, if you want to make the set, by all means you have my blessing. Just go learn 3d Studio Max, Povray and Movray, or even DOGA.

To be honest with you, I had no fricking clue that SFB had a Gorn set. IF I had, I would have tried to model the set a bit more closely to that. Hell I might even still try to do that. But in the intrum, if you don't like the racial picture, then feel free to use whatever you wish. You have my blessing.

[ July 20, 2002, 01:04: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Atrocities]

CLICK HERE for the Gorn EMP files.

OK, FIXED NOW. SORRY ABOUT THAT .

[ July 20, 2002, 01:27: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[sachmo]

I'm just getting the race zip file from that link, Atrocities.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Um, these Gorn are um, Post STNG era. That is why the ships look differant.

Hey look, I did not think that I was going to stir the hornets nest with this set. It is extremely hard to develop a cannon race based upon small images, no referances, and horrible shots. CASE IN POINT

I'm not intending to seem like you've stirred up a hornet's nest; I -like- the shipset you made, it just doesn't say "gorn" to me, not even post-STNG ... there's no design lineage involved,your shipset isn't just "a bit different" ... it's wholly different. NICE, but .... not Gorn.

And as for that image -- it's ONE image, out of three (with each one having further details under "back"). The CA, CL, DD, and DN (Heavy Cruiser, Light Cruiser, Destroyer, and Dreadnaught, respectively) form a resonably representative cross-section of what Gorn ships look like.

In fact, the front/back scans are of the smallc ards included with the miniatures, way back in the late 70's or early 80's. The "back" portion indicates some of the design and/or intended use concerns of the Gorn, WRT why and how it was built the way it was.

The --> Gorn Heavy Cruiser <-- in fact is a clear indication of the general look / feel / style of Gorn ships.

As is the --> Gorn Destroyer <--.

And the --> Gorn Dreadnaught <-- is quite clear; a good clean scan, even.

On top of which, the Gorns are among those SFB races who DO have a working link to a color PDF guide for miniatures painting: --> Clearly-illustrated PDF for paintign Gorn ship miniatures <--. That one includes the CL, DD, DN, and BC, so it's got FOUR hulls.

Taken all together, I fail to see how those five images couldn't give one a feel for the style of the Gorn race's ships. Did you go out of your way to find the least clear image ... ?

Interpretation is fine; but IMO you need to accept -mild- criticism, which is what my prior post was. There's no excuse for not doing fifteen or twenty minutes of poking about a web search engine to get some prior images, and seeign if you can make a shipset out of the style presented there.

Originally written by Baron Munchausen
But really, does it matter if this Gorn set is not just like SFB? Who said SFB was cannon? Did a Gorn ship ever appear in the actual Trek series or movies? I don't think so. Which means the race is open to interpretation.

SFB -was- once -the- canon source; Paramount has made a habit of breaking prior contracts ... their legal department is big enough that no smallfry will challenge them,it'd be too costly. ADB originally bought hte rights *in perpetuity* to produce "official" blueprints for Trek ships of all sorts ... so yeah, technically, anything with ADB's stamp on it, is as canon as canon gets.

Originally written by geoschmo
Uh, dude. Take a pill, really. Where exactly does Atrocities claim this is a Gorn shipset based on Star Fleet Battles? Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see it anywhere. And unless he did, then your rant is not only a bit excessive, but totally uncalled for.

*sigh*

The Gorn -are- an SFB race; Paramount touched on them once or so; ADB (Amarillo Design Bureau), through their publisher TFG (Task Force Games), produced all the information on the Gorn not presented in that one, singular (IIRC) episode of TOS which evenmentioend the Gorn, and those episodes of the cartoon series which might have featured them -- in fact, IIRC, it is from that cartoon series (Paramount-made, so as canon as anythign else they made) that the style and overall look of the ships is from.

I have a bit of a pet peeve about seeing a race billed as such-and-such from Star Trek ... I open it,look, and ... it's not that race. Often, as is the case with this shipset, it's a GREAT set of ships. But it's not what it's advertised to be.

I also asked Atrocities NOT to take the rant personally -- in fact multiple times I expressed that I liked the SHIPS, but didn't think they were GORN ships; this is a -general- pet peeve of mine and that rant was directed in general to makers of shipsets.

I fyou think that's so horrible a thing ... *shrug* not my problem.

Star Fleet Battles, while a great resource, is not the sum total and canon of the Star Trek universe.

In the absence of sources that have greater provenance, however, it bears strongly on the matter at hand. And since there -aren't- any other available sources as to teh style of Gorn hulls ...

Now, one Last time, in case people missed it: I don't belittle Atrocities' work in creating a gorgeous shipset; I am only highly dismayed that yet again, it bears zero resemblance to any prior depictions of Gorn ships. Were this cut of whole cloth, and not claiming to be based on an established SF race ... I'd've applauded, LOUDLY.

But when a shipset is based on an established SF race, it well behooves the shipsets prospective author to dosome background research, and see if there's an established / accepted "style" for said race's ships.

After all, one could do a Star Wars shipset that looked NOTHIGN liek Star Wars ("TiE Fighters" that looked nothing like in the movies, etc). Wouldn't a Star Wars fan be in his rights to point out that possibly-minor failing?