Cloaking question

[Ed Kolis]

Well, what exactly would a level 1 cloak block? A level 0 scan? I don't think that level 0 scans count for seeing things with... or DO they?

[Phoenix-D]

It would block a ship WITHOUT scanners from seeing the ship- assuming they don't start with scanners in everything, of course.

Phoenix-D

[Krsqk]

Let's see if we can simplify this:

code:

---

         Actv  Pass  Grav  Temp  Psyc

Scanner    1     0     0     0     0

Cloak      2     0     0     0     0

  --Cloak wins



         Actv  Pass  Grav  Temp  Psyc

Scanner    1     1     0     0     0

Cloak      2     0     0     0     0

  --Scanner wins



         Actv  Pass  Grav  Temp  Psyc

Scanner    1     0     0     0     0

Cloak      0     1     0     0     0

  --Scanner wins



         Actv  Pass  Grav  Temp  Psyc

Scanner    1     0     0     0     0

Cloak      2     1     0     0     0

  --Cloak wins (EM), redundant cloaking

---

Level 1 cloaks won't provide any benefit, since lvl 0 doesn't detect anything--lvl 1 is the lowest effective level. Thus, the lowest practical cloak level is lvl 2, since level 1 is redundant.

[dumbluck]

Why is Level 1 redundant??? If a ship starts with 0 in everything but Active EM, then level 1 will hide you, IF you also have a higher cloak in Active EM. If my Active EM cloak beats your scanner, it may be quicker for you to research, say, level 1 Passive EM sensors than it would to research level 2 Active EM sensors. Either way would let you see my Active EM cloaked ships, but If you're pressed for time, the quickest sensor that would defeat my cloak is best.

And splitting cloaking/scanning techs up like this would have the fringe benefit of making Scanners more useful. (How else are you going to be able to remain undetected and yet know for sure that you ARE undetected...

[ August 03, 2002, 08:54: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[dumbluck]

To make combinations of cloaks more likely, I would suggest 2 things: Extend sensor/cloak to level 10 (or even 15!), and make the levels expensive. That way, there is a major difference in research cost between mid-high level cloaks of one type and low level in another.

[Krsqk]

I think we're misunderstanding each other. Level 1 cloaking would be redundant, since it would only beat level 0 scanning--which doesn't scan at all. OTH, level 1 scanning is definitely useful, since it can detect ships with level 1 or no cloaking.

[dumbluck]

Level 0 scanning is present in the game. All ships start out with level 0 scanning in all types except EM-Active. So there are benefits of level 1 scanners (accept in EM-Active, which by default starts at lev 1). Now if you skip from, say, temporal scanning 0 to temporal 2 (as you suggest), what's the point of having temporal level 1 cloaking? You would have to research 2 steps of temporal cloaking (0-1, then 1-2) to beat the one research step of temporal scanning (0-2). THAT doesn't make sense....

Granted, in the early sensor/cloak rush, anything besides EM-Active would be a waste. But once you got up to EM-Active 4 or so, it would be cheaper and quicker to research a different type of cloaking instead of the next step of EM-Active. And unless your opponent can successfully guess which type you switched to, you have a window of opportunity whilst your opponent waits for the research to complete on the next, now rather expensive, level of EM-Active.