Jade Emperor for T'ien ch'i MA?

[legowarrior]

I tried Death and Nature in a game, it didn't not go great. As I recall, I ended up with a ton of Fire Gems and Air gems, that I could barely use. Also, getting the rings without empowerment is nearly impossible without strong astral on your pretender. I wasted a ton of gems empower an alchemist in fire, and a master in astral, just to get Zmeys and rings. With Asstral 4-5 I can start getting the rings earlier in the game.

Also, I tend to go heavy misfortune, so my preferred research is the Imperial Geomancer. Stops most bad events and I can put them all together for a reverse gift from heaven communion.

Minister of magic is fine for research is fine, but when I have a castle with out a lab, it builds a consort, those ladies are awesome. Besides, what is the point to a minister of Magic when you can't even do any research with him?

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

Besides, what is the point to a minister of Magic when you can't even do any research with him?

...

[legowarrior]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

...

As in build him a place without a lab. Come on guys, connect the dots.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

As in build him a place without a lab. Come on guys, connect the dots.

Er...but the ministers can still walk to a lab. Hence Soy's comment that "it might take 2 turns to start researching". There's a short-term loss of efficiency, but that's very different than "can't even do any research".

Also, some further explication scales- Although you have a great research in the minister of magic, you still want magic scales. Magic 1 gives them a +20% increase in research. Not as dramatic as the +33% increase for, say, mictlan priests or yogis, but still very worthwhile for 40 points.

That said, geomancers are very good, maybe my favorite cheap mages, and you'll definitely want to recruit a lot, but being able to build researchers without a lab is a huge deal early on. 2 less labs is an extra castle, with no drag on your research. And it's because you'll have extra castles that you dont need production (I usually take sloth 1).

[Bat/man]

One comment only:

Personally, the heat/cold scale you use should depend on the game.

I tend to go to extremes on heat in order to take less negatives on luck or growth.

But the choice of the heat scale should depend on your neighbors - or at least the game participants.

If you know that you will be fighting abysia and machaka, or lizards, or agartha choose cold scales.

If you know that there will be water nations or death nations - choose heat.

Finally consider if your opponents are more susceptible to exhaustion (fatigue) than you are. Fatigue can help you if so.

[legowarrior]

Originally Posted by Bat/man

One comment only:

Personally, the heat/cold scale you use should depend on the game.

I tend to go to extremes on heat in order to take less negatives on luck or growth.

But the choice of the heat scale should depend on your neighbors - or at least the game participants.

If you know that you will be fighting abysia and machaka, or lizards, or agartha choose cold scales.

If you know that there will be water nations or death nations - choose heat.

Finally consider if your opponents are more susceptible to exhaustion (fatigue) than you are. Fatigue can help you if so.

Yes, yes, that I realize. Temp Scales (when you don't benefit) depend on who you are fighting against. But that doesn't answer the question of asymmetry of choosing between temp scales or misfortune for the T'ien Ch'i. Misfortune can be handled by the high pd and Fortune Teller ability, but it can hurt gem income and the like. Also, it is the question of whether Growth Scales are worth if it comes to adding misfortune or temp scales.

[Bat/man]

Shrug.. better is subjective. I presume your strategic plan is to not rely on a bless.

Me: I'd probably look at A4 W3 S5 on the pretender.
This gives you air boosters, and Rings of wizardry fast.

Water is easily buffable.

I'd take the 4!8 + 3!8 +5!8 = 80+48+120 = 248 points if my math is right and do other things. I'd probably in prison the pretender for another 100 points.

Also, your eunuchs and city guard have patrol bonuses, so that one eunuch and 10 guards can easily maintain tax rates of 140 or so. The advice given in 2004 still stands - Tien chi can stand to be overtaxed. I'd take growth 3, for 80 of those 348 points.

Now the remaining question for Tien chi - is what is your late game plan. This is the *hardest* part for Tien chi.

With low level magic (1-2 all over) you will lack for strategic maneuverability, and you really good end game options like SC's and High end summons.

To me, this is what your pretender design has to accomplish.
There are a variety of possibilities.

Death for tarts.
Golemns (or similar).
Blood
The New CBM summons.

The old popular choices will be Death and/or nature on your pretender. This is the route I would probably still go.
Adding death 3 costs 108 pts, right? death 4 140 and death 5 180?
(I'm doing this from memory).

Find some combination of death and nature you are comfortable with.

Once thats done - lets consider your endgame again. In order to *have* and endgame you want to make sure you have the research and the gems to get the chalice.

Pretty tough goal - but if you're going to try it, M1 is minimum and M3 is probably required.

So, thats my thinking. Overtax at the start for a jack rabbit start. Be careful with the troop types you present to your opponents. Research to win - you won't win by a military solution.