MP: BSoD (Newbie, LA, CBM 1.92) [Started!]

[Russian_Comrade]

Sigh. Calling each other names... Relax people, it's only a game.

Well, first of all, I'm congratulating Ermor with victory, any further resistance is pretty much useless. I'll possibly strike at Ermor just for lulz, but chances for victory - especially with players quitting - are close to zero. With my modest S income it is quite impossible to destroy global enchantment spam.

The second thing - it greatly amused me that Ermor needed to break NAP act with me in such boring way. Having position that strong and initiating direct hostile actions (and casting Utterdark and dispelling my global are direct hostile actions) without any common courtesy is pretty strange, ungraceful and is not easy for me to understand. Still - that action was effective, although from now I'll have more second thoughts when I'll consider myself in engaging in any diplomatic activity with Ermor's player, and advise other players to do the same.

[revenant2]

Originally Posted by Russian_Comrade

Sigh. Calling each other names... Relax people, it's only a game.

Well, first of all, I'm congratulating Ermor with victory, any further resistance is pretty much useless. I'll possibly strike at Ermor just for lulz, but chances for victory - especially with players quitting - are close to zero. With my modest S income it is quite impossible to destroy global enchantment spam.

The second thing - it greatly amused me that Ermor needed to break NAP act with me in such boring way. Having position that strong and initiating direct hostile actions (and casting Utterdark and dispelling my global are direct hostile actions) without any common courtesy is pretty strange, ungraceful and is not easy for me to understand. Still - that action was effective, although from now I'll have more second thoughts when I'll consider myself in engaging in any diplomatic activity with Ermor's player, and advise other players to do the same.

Interesting point about the NAP. I can definitely see where you're coming from, although in the few games I've been in (three including this one), I didn't see people be especially concerned about game-winning enchants in terms of NAPs, although I'll grant you that none of them were Utterdark either.

Don't most of your troops have Darkvision and have low upkeep cost anyway? I figure UD would effect you least of anyone -- well, besides me of course

Newb question: Is there an established protocol for NAPs? I figured it included attacks, assassinations, and remote attacks, but everything else is shades of grey to me. For instance, you were sending in waves of spies against me. In one turn, I rooted out three of them in one of my provinces alone. Is that considered a violation of a NAP?

I also feel the need to remind you that I assisted you with gems, items, and even went to war with R'lyeh to protect you (even though it was strategically a bad decision for me since my troops don't fight well underwater), and split Abysia's tribute with you when I didn't need too, which was all beyond the bounds of a NAP.

Hell, at one point I even told you how powerful I was becoming and suggested that you that you might want to consider banding together with the remaining nations to stop me, or be subservient to Bone Daddy. I even gave you the option to nullify the NAP so you wouldn't have to give notice.

If that's a player that has suspect diplomatic dealings, then you have some out-of-this world expectations.

[Russian_Comrade]

How amusing.

Well, thing is, I'm just trying to use "deal struck is the deal struck" approach to the Dom3 diplomacy. Meaning that I may say a lot of fuzzy and evasive things before a deal and may be dealing with other players under the table, but after the deal is struck I'll find really difficult for me to directly violate it. I may reconsider this approach after a few games, but for now I'm going to go with this method. I'm especially wary against a NAP violation, in this dog-eat-dog of Dom3 it is pretty important to maintain at least some measure of civility.

Originally Posted by revenant2

Interesting point about the NAP. I can definitely see where you're coming from, although in the few games I've been in (three including this one), I didn't see people be especially concerned about game-winning enchants in terms of NAPs, although I'll grant you that none of them were Utterdark either.

Don't most of your troops have Darkvision and have low upkeep cost anyway? I figure UD would effect you least of anyone -- well, besides me of course

Utterdark and Burden of Time are world-attacking spells. They have a same effect as casting direct-attack spell at the every single of your provinces all of the time. Thus, casting them without notice is a direct hostile action. Thank you for considering the results of casting it by me, but well, taking somewhat less damage from the nuclear winter is still taking damage.

Originally Posted by revenant2

Well, maybe I had to figure that I needed to help you with micromanagment by attacking some of your armies?
Newb question: Is there an established protocol for NAPs? I figured it included attacks, assassinations, and remote attacks, but everything else is shades of grey to me. For instance, you were sending in waves of spies against me. In one turn, I rooted out three of them in one of my provinces alone. Is that considered a violation of a NAP?

Casting a direct attack spell is a hostile action for me. Utterdark is a direct attack spell. Spying is not. Did my scouts attack your provinces or cut 90% of your gem supply?

Originally Posted by revenant2

Hell, at one point I even told you how powerful I was becoming and suggested that you that you might want to consider banding together with the remaining nations to stop me, or be subservient to Bone Daddy. I even gave you the option to nullify the NAP so you wouldn't have to give notice.

You told me that 2 turns ago - with no mention of using UD (and you spoke with me about possible using BoT before that in the future so I had some stupid naive idea that I'll have some notice of you casting UD). The same time you scripted dispelling my global, by the way. I asked you last turn in reply about sudden disappearance of this global, had no answer, scipted some war preparation things. This turn I was going to send you NAP dissolval message, and I was going to attack you in three turns.

[revenant2]

Originally Posted by Russian_Comrade

How amusing.

Well, thing is, I'm just trying to use "deal struck is the deal struck" approach to the Dom3 diplomacy. Meaning that I may say a lot of fuzzy and evasive things before a deal and may be dealing with other players under the table, but after the deal is struck I'll find really difficult for me to directly violate it. I may reconsider this approach after a few games, but for now I'm going to go with this method. I'm especially wary against a NAP violation, in this dog-eat-dog of Dom3 it is pretty important to maintain at least some measure of civility.

Utterdark and Burden of Time are world-attacking spells. They have a same effect as casting direct-attack spell at the every single of your provinces all of the time. Thus, casting them without notice is a direct hostile action. Thank you for considering the results of casting it by me, but well, taking somewhat less damage from the nuclear winter is still taking damage.

Casting a direct attack spell is a hostile action for me. Utterdark is a direct attack spell. Spying is not. Did my scouts attack your provinces or cut 90% of your gem supply?

You told me that 2 turns ago - with no mention of using UD (and you spoke with me about possible using BoT before that in the future so I had some stupid naive idea that I'll have some notice of you casting UD). The same time you scripted dispelling my global, by the way. I asked you last turn in reply about sudden disappearance of this global, had no answer, scipted some war preparation things. This turn I was going to send you NAP dissolval message, and I was going to attack you in three turns.

Spying actually is an offensive action. On the battlefield replay it shows up as an attack and the patrolling force can easily lose units due to friendly fire.

And as far as the dispelling the global goes, it's an anonymous action. And I neither confirmed nor denied that I dispelled it. As far as you're concerned it could have been cast by an AI or a dastardly plot by another player to mess with you.

Yeah I know, it might seem far-fetched since I obviously was the one to benefit from it, but then again, why would I waste a turn and astral gems for a game-ending enchantment? I used well over 500 death gems to cast Utter Dark and I guarantee you that it was going to overpower whatever was there.

And it's not like I needed those other enchants after UD anyway. My death income is over 50 without Well of Misery, I'm overflowing with units so Soul Gate doesn't really help (I don't have enough commanders for all my undead), and Strands of Arcane Power lost its effectiveness a long time ago.