IDF OOB project. - Page 5

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #1 October 3rd, 2013, 03:56 AM

Wanted to post this ref as well it notes that the SdKfz 251/20 worked in a Unit of one of these with 6 IR equipped PANTHERS and Infantry with specialized night combat equipped weapons (With VAMPIRE scopes.) to protect the 251/20 UHU, Range of it's IR Searchlight was 1.5km.
The troops were carried in the SdKfz 251/21 FALKE (See REF 1 from previous post. Also these were IR equipped as well.) These units/battle groups saw combat on both fronts from 1944 on.
http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/251-20.htm
http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/infrared.htm
http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/vampire.htm
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-...heinwerfer.htm

Sorry I strayed with this last, but can you imagine if they had more of these units/battle groups?

Regards,
Pat

gingertanker · #2 October 1st, 2013, 04:40 PM

You guys are awesome.

DRG · #3 October 6th, 2013, 07:44 PM

Is the "doghouse" on the Nagmachon fixed ? I assume it is but I thought I'd ask. Also, still waiting for an answer to post #26

Don

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #4 October 7th, 2013, 01:08 AM

Don,
Until Amit gets back to you this is what I found in the short term. Appears the KMT-4 and NOCHRI DALET are the same, with that in mind I got the M60A1 Mag'ach BLAZER & Mag'ach 6A (Both pictured below.), MERKAVA Mk II (Seems all types.) and the MERKAVA Mk III BAZ (Strange but this is the only variant I could confirm in the Mk III) and nothing came up for the Mk IV. Of course the PUMA is already in the OOB.
http://www.online-utility.org/image/...e=Merkava+tank

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Regards,
Pat

DRG · #5 October 7th, 2013, 07:27 AM

OK thanks. I've prepared revised Icons that show rollers rather than plows on the Merks

DRG · #6 November 28th, 2018, 06:47 AM

70 is easily adjusted for date and armour I have no idea how that could be turned into something described as "this mess" unless you feel it shold not be in the same class as the other Heavy APC's

85 used to be the "Classical".... I'm not sure why it was renamed Zelda 2. Now.... you say it should be renamed back to classical.......OK easy to do and so is changing the 12.7 to a 7.62 FN.... but you say the ERA never happened but don't say they should be removed

??

83 has now been adjusted as has 84 and 98 is "re-nationalize"(so it's still in the OOB but won't show up in the game)

gingertanker · #7 November 28th, 2018, 07:42 AM

The issue with 70 is it can be either of 3 different M113s with superstructure. And I am not sure which it should be. To be honest the practical differences for the game are small.

You see Nagman is short for Nagmash Memugan...This would be IDF M113s with protected superstructures. At first with pen roof, later with closed roof. This started being a thing probably in the mid 80s...Now by 2000 there were two major types of this superstructure. They were generally referred to as Kasman. Kasman/Magen is a large superstructure, Kasman/Maoz is a small superstructure.

And I am not sure this merits 2 or 3 seperate units...
As far as being a HAPC...I guess? In hull protection it is just a M113 with Vayzata. The superstructure is probably MMG proof. Sometimes they had cage armor for RPGs...It's a mess because these are all add ons. To make things worse these were not even that numerous, they were spread out in FOBs that needed them...

Zelda 2 vs Classical: Re-reading my message I see the confusion. Classical was the common name for M113s with ERA and small open top superstructure (as well as an improved break system). Zelda 2 is the name of an armor package which I believe is later to Classical, but even if I am wrong (and they are the same) no one ever called any vehicle in service Zelda 2.

What is the "???" for?

DRG · #8 November 28th, 2018, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingertanker

What is the "???" for?

You said "Unit 085: "Zelda 2" - the later ERA add on plates for M113s never really went into service"

OK.....The name is back to "Classical" but do I remove the ERA that is now added to unit 85 ?

gingertanker · #9 November 28th, 2018, 07:43 AM

I am sorry that this is so weird but the IDF just has a whole mess of M113s and official names and common names are not always the same at all.

DRG · #10 November 28th, 2018, 07:54 AM

The "Heavy APC" unit name is not always an indicator of what the actual function of the APC is... it just one way to differentiate between different apcs my point in this case was should it be in the same formations as the others in that class..( forget what the class is called )

70 can simply be an amalgamation of subtypes of the same basic vehicle