British OOB7 corrections/suggestions (v.6)

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

350, I wouldn't expect wasting such precious fighter for MG-strafing, BTW, especially for Mk.IA.

352 Spitfire MkVIII - it's better to rename it Mk.V C - most popular at that time, and used with bombs since 8/42 (date is correct). First VIIIs were built in 11/42 and were less popular variant.

353 Spitfire Mk.IXe - "e" wing with 2 cannons and 2x0.5in appeared in summer 44 only (now 3/43) [The Spitfire Story]

Michal

Unit 350
The Spitfire Mk Ia was not designed to carry bombs, so if we want Spitfires for Sea Lion or Dunkirk we have to resort to desperate strafing.

Unit 352
The Mk VIII was the third most produced Spitfire after the Mk V and the Mk IX. It's less well known because it was mostly used in the Mediterranean and SE Asia, which SPWW2 covers.
Many Spitfire pilots claim the Mk VIII was the best Spitfire.

Perhaps the primary reason not to change the Mk VIII to a Mk V is because the OOB already has a Mk V (see unit 351). The OOB has one each of the five most famous/common Spitfires.

Unit 353
For errors that are not obvious or well documented we should check several sources.

The first Mk IX were delivered in 1942 to No.64 Squadron at Hornchurch, and was the first squadron to go operational with Spitfire IX on 28 July 1942; but these would have been Mk IXc.

There's plenty of sources that say the IXe was delivered in 1943
Here's three Spitfire Mk IXe that still exist today that were apparently delivered in 1943:

Spitfire Mk IXe PL344 Registration N644TB Delivered to 8 MU in March 1943

Spitfire Mk IXe WR-RR serial MA793 This aircraft was produced at Castle Bromwich in 1943 and was delivered to 6 MU RAF on 21 July 1943.
It was shipped to the Mediterranean on 5 August 1943 and was operated by the Mediterranean Allied AF till transferred to USAAF 31 October 1943.

Spitfire HF Mk IXe MJ730 Registration N730MJ - First flight by Alex Henshaw 10 December 1943. Delivered to 33 MU in December 1943, MJ730 served with 249 Squadron in the Balkan Air Force

Cross

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Cross

Unit 350
The Spitfire Mk Ia was not designed to carry bombs, so if we want Spitfires for Sea Lion or Dunkirk we have to resort to desperate strafing.

Unit 352
The Mk VIII was the third most produced Spitfire after the Mk V and the Mk IX. It's less well known because it was mostly used in the Mediterranean and SE Asia, which SPWW2 covers.
Many Spitfire pilots claim the Mk VIII was the best Spitfire.

I'm not going to suggest arming Spitfire I with bombs That was only may opinion as for its usefulness in the game...

As for Mk VIII - I was surprised to find, that it was a popular variant (maybe it's because of Spitfire V /IX pilots' memoires, that I grew up reading )
Anyway, for several months from 8/42, a Spitfire with bombs could only be Mk Vc. We can ignore such a minor issue as well. I don't know, which variant was more popular on African theatre.

Unit 353
For errors that are not obvious or well documented we should check several sources.

The first Mk IX were delivered in 1942 to No.64 Squadron at Hornchurch, and was the first squadron to go operational with Spitfire IX on 28 July 1942; but these would have been Mk IXc.

There's plenty of sources that say the IXe was delivered in 1943
Here's three Spitfire Mk IXe that still exist today that were apparently delivered in 1943:

Thanks. Summer 1944 is given by Afred Price, though it looked suspicious for me as well.

Michal

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Thanks. Summer 1944 is given by Afred Price, though it looked suspicious for me as well.

Michal

I've seen sources say Summer 44 for the 'e' wing', so it may be true. But at the moment I'm more convinced by the 1943 claims.

I guess it's possible that the above aircraft started life as 'c' wings and then were converted to 'e' wing at some point (all sources only reference the 'e' wing). But that would not just be a matter of replacing the .303 MGs with .5 inch cannon, the wings would have to be replaced.

Perhaps I'll have another go at nailing it down.


Cross

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Cross

I've seen sources say Summer 44 for the 'e' wing', so it may be true.

Three Polish squadrons got LF Mk IX in May-June 1944.

Anyway, maybe best option would be to create IXc available from late 1942, to utilize increased bombload, with only slightly worse MG armament?

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Anyway, maybe best option would be to create IXc available from late 1942, to utilize increased bombload, with only slightly worse MG armament?

Ironically, the 'c' wing doesn't have to mean worse armament. The 'c' wing was called the 'universal wing' because it could house several different combinations of weapons (but not 50cal MGs) with the most common:

2x 20mm and 4x .303 MG
or
4x 20mm cannon

The RAF thought the 'e' wing was an improvement because in air to air combat they liked the combination of hard hitting 20mm cannon and high rate of fire .5in MGs (that had better hitting power than .303 MG) and you could carry a lot more bursts of .5in ammo than 20mm.


Cross

[Pibwl]

Let's continue:

387 C9/B 40mm SPAA - is it armoured purposely? In fact it had only gun's shield.

388 Humber AA Mk.I - size should be 3(2), like 377 Guy AA

391 1.5pdr Empl - it uses generic SP-1 picture, as 40mm Bofors.

403 17-pdr MK2 ATG - units 63, 146 use a name written: "17 Pdr", and better is "Mk.2" instead of MK2

406 Priest Kangaroo - it carried .50 or .30 AAMG on a ring (several photos with AAMG are here http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208...garoo+interior)
I haven't found information confirming, that it had BMG (original Priest had not), and it's not seen on photos.

490 Honey Recce - better photo is 27739 (seems, that turretless M3/M3A1 were used only in Africa in a small number, while later turretless M3A3 with sloped hull became common and officially approved vehicles)

595 Col 3in Stokes - drawing is a generic mortar (with Soviet 82mm baseplate) - others use 21150 for 3in mortar

601, 604 Morris CS9 - it had an open turret in fact. Maybe it should have more SD? (it had a smoke mortar).
It's known in publications as Morris CS9/LAC (eg. AFV Weapons Profile 21)

603 Rolls Royce - I believe, that it should not be "colonial AC" class - the cars converted with Boys were used in Egypt, on main theatre, by the 11th Hussars, since the very beginning of war with Italy (6/40 - now it starts at 1/42).
The new turret was fixed (so the Boys was fixed as well) and open from a top. They had also a smoke mortar. [Osprey New Vanguard 189 - Rolls-Royce armoured cars]

On the other hand, 126 Rolls Royce A/C (class 11) should end at some 4/40 at best (now 9/41) - unmodified cars weren't used in combat on main theatres of WWII, and the rest of their service is covered by 602 colonial RR (some were waiting for an invasion in Great Britain). If 603 is changed to class 11, then a lifespan of unmodified 602 can be extended.

All 126, 602, 603 Rolls Royce - correct name is "Rolls-Royce" (I suggest "Rolls-Royce A/C", like #126, for all).

Seems, that Guy armoured cars (375, 376) in fact weren't used in combat, apart from 6 vehicles in French campaign. They were next used for training and defence of Great Britain. Maybe they shouldn't be available to a player in African theatre?... (the only British armoured cars in Africa until early 1941 were Rolls-Royce and Morris CS9, then Marmon-Herringtons) [AFV Weapons Profile 21 - Armoured cars]

628 75mm MkII FG - picture 23015 is Russian 3in Putilov

733 Tetrarch ICS - photo 27624 looks like CS

735 Daimler A/C - I suggest to call it "Daimler AC (LJ)" to avoid confusion with ordinary one

865 Carden Lloyd VI - correctly "Carden Loyd VI"

[Pibwl]

Several proposed pictures (eg. British Boston and Gladiator, Huricane IIc, British Priest)

[Cross]

Weapon 25 – 40mm Bofors AAG
The British Bofors was L/60 so should have its accuracy increased from 14 to 15
(The US version was L/56 and so has the correct accuracy).

Weapon 066 – 3.7in CSH
Rename ‘95mm CS How’
Every reliable source calls this gun 95mm not 3.7 inch.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30025513

The ‘95mm CS How’ was the newer L/18 gun used by Cromwell and Churchill tanks.
The 3.7in How (weapon 67) was the older L/12 gun used by A9, A10, A13 tanks, and was also an Infantry Gun, which all appears to be correctly modeled in the game, weapon 66 just needs the name change.

Weapon 85 - Molotov
Rename ‘AW Bomb No.76’ or ‘SIP Petrol Bomb’ or just plain ‘Petrol Bomb’
‘Molotov Cocktail’ was coined by Finland in the Winter War, and wouldn’t have been used by the Brits for some time.

Weapon 96 - Lewis M.25 LMG
Rename ‘.303 Lewis Gun’
Naming the Lewis Gun an LMG is technically correct, but it’s a bit like naming the US BAR
‘BAR LMG’.

Weapon 114 - S&W.38 Revolver
Rename ‘Webley Revolver’
Webley is the classic British WWI & WWII revolver, rather than a US gun, and doesn’t have to be abbreviated.

Weapon 146 – Sniper Rifle
Rename to ‘Rifle No.3 (T)’
The standard WWII British sniper rifle, (T) is for telescopic sight

Weapon 180 - 110 lb Bomb
British had a 120 lb Bomb, which was used a little in the early war - rename 120-lb GP Bomb (or just ‘120 lb Bomb’)
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.p...ombs&Itemid=60

Weapon 188 - 5in Naval Gun
Weapon either has wrong class, or should be renamed to ‘5in Coast Gun’

Weapon 229 – Pole Mine
Rename ‘Bangalore Trpdo’?

Weapon 242 - .303 Rifle
Rename to ‘.303 Rifle No.4’ which was the standard WWII British rifle
The .303 SMLE Rifle was the classic WWI rifle, and was still used by Home Guard and Colonial units.


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[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Seems, that Guy armoured cars (375, 376) in fact weren't used in combat, apart from 6 vehicles in French campaign. They were next used for training and defence of Great Britain. Maybe they shouldn't be available to a player in African theatre?...

I've noticed, that there's no problem, since Guys are classified as Light AC and available only in a formation Home Defence.

But then, Ironside Mk.III (Humber LRC III) of the same class should also be available as an Armoured car - they were used from 11/42 in North Africa (Tunisian campaign) until the end of war, by recce units of infantry divisions. [Osprey New Vanguard 177 Humber_Light_Reconnaissance_Car_1941-45]

Some British recce units in Italy used also Otters (#125 from Canadian OOB) and Greyhounds, that could be added.

There is also an interesting Morris LRC possible to add, but it would need new icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_...nnaissance_Car )