Question, Armor and mines

[dumbluck]

Originally posted by Q:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Remove the repair ability from Space Yard components.

That would indeed solve problem number 1. But the second problem would still remain.

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Well, since we're modding, we could also mod in a smaller base hull, just big enough to hold command structures and a small repair bay that only repairs 1 component per turn. The smaller repair base should be buildable quickly, but as long as the bigger base with full sized repair bays is significantly more effecient at repairs/turn, the desired effects should hold...

EDIT=typos

[ August 18, 2002, 07:25: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Q]

My point is just that the restriction of repair would create more problems than its benefit is worth. That is of course just my humble opinion. If we want to prevent a fleet from going indefinitely from one combat to the other why not play without quantum reactor and solar panels? No matter how much supply ships you have in your fleet sooner or later you will run out of supplies and you need either to return or conquer an intact colony and build a resupply depot.

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by Q:
My point is just that the restriction of repair would create more problems than its benefit is worth. That is of course just my humble opinion. If we want to prevent a fleet from going indefinitely from one combat to the other why not play without quantum reactor and solar panels? No matter how much supply ships you have in your fleet sooner or later you will run out of supplies and you need either to return or conquer an intact colony and build a resupply depot.

Why not do both of those things? Limit repairs to bases/planets and remove the quantum reactor (and maybe the solar panel - or maybe just make it generate supplies more slowly). It's certainly an interesting thought.

Of course, if MM would implement tugs, the whole idea would work even better - then you could tow derelict ships (either out-of-supply or all engines damaged) back to a repair base. (I know, in the current Version, to move an out-of-supply ship all you need to do is fleet it with another ship that still has supplies; but a tug could be used to grab the ship WITHOUT fleeting, and therefore without having to share supplies and only spend supplies on the tug's engines, not both ships' engines).

[Zanthis]

Large mine fields could have their omnipotence reduced if the maximum number of mines attacking a given fleet was controlled by the number of ships in the fleet.

Example, suppose a fleet was attacked by 10 mines per ship. Now 2000 mines only mean multiple fleets will have to deal with the mines, but a single fleet doesn't have an impossible mass to deal with.

Then add components that fit into mines that improve their seeking (would have to be a new ability), increasing the number of mines that attack each ship. So maybe with advanced seeking heads, 15 mines per ship might attack.

Further, add another component (with yet another new ability) that makes the mines more difficult to destroy. Say add a "-1 mine destroyed per minesweeper" ability. Then, higher tech levels would balance out by keeping minesweeping components in check.

Optionally, make minesweepers have a chance to hit, and use Combat To Hit components to make mines harder to sweep.

Actually, giving to hit chance would be nice. Then allow/require mine sweeping components to double up shots on missed mines at 1/2 chance of hitting.

For example, say 200 mines are attacking and you can sweep 200 mines. Further, lets say you have a 90% to hit (just out of a hat). You kill the first 9 mines, but the 10th slips by. You take a second shot at 45% chance to hit, but miss that too. That mines damages your fleet (should automatically, or nearly always, hit a minesweeper, probably, allowing you to lose minesweeping components before you get a chance to use them). So, you've killed 9 mines and 1 blew up and hurt a ship. You've also used 11 of your 200 shots. Repeat for the remaining 190 mines waiting to attack you, the Last of which (since you only have 189 sweeps left) will get through safely.

Adding chances for mines to hit would be nice. Proximity warhead with bonus to hit but doing less damage could be cool. Proximity heads could also be harder to sweep (penalty to be hit) since they must be destroyed earlier [extra special would be reducing the chance to be hit for only double up shots, but that's a brand new ability, and probably not worth it].

[geoschmo]

Actually Q, removing QR and restricting Solar Panels was step one in the mod. That's already done. All this talk about mines is step two.

And we were considering changes to repair as well, so I guess you could call that step three.

Geoschmo

[dumbluck]

Ummmm, what mod are you talking about?

[Jmenschenfresser]

History Mod, I think. I just finished doing the beta of it Last night. I spent probably an hour retuning mine damage...still not sure I am happy with it.

Wish I had read this thread before I starting modding. Oh well.

Our goal in the History mod is to slow the dynamics of the game down in every area possible. Something like the side effects of proportions made intentional....except we aren't trying to slow the game down that much. Doing it in a controlled way. Problem we saw in the first history game was that it took great restrain not to just start glassing everything...such things aren't too conducive to story writing. We wanted a real limited war. We are trying to make it to where the battle for a few planets or a system, or even for a warp point, is a grueling affair.

My mine solution:
-Mine warheads now do 10, 20 and 30 kt damage respectively.
-I took out the cloak ability of the mine hull and made a separate component which you get when researching mines 1, 3, 4, 5. The Last of which blocks all sensors. Takes 5kt.
-All mine sweepers are out of the game.

Conclusion:
-The most powerful mine field you can build (assuming you can build 100 mines) does 12,000kt of damage. I know that sounds like a lot, and it is, but remember that is later in the game.
-The first mine fields you build can't do more than 2000kt of damage. That is 100 mines. You could do that same damage with 10 mines in unmodded game.
-But remember these mines won't be cloaked. If you want to build cloaked mines: A) they are more expensive and B) you can put one less warhead on each mine. So those two numbers I stated before will come down to 9,000 for late game fields and 1000 for early game.

If this proves to be too powerful, I will simply lower the mine per sector number. If it is too weak, I will raise it.

Although I have a feeling 12,000 is a little high, but it is damn tough to have things work well in both early and late game.