new discovery's --MODS

[DRG]

Here's on you won't see as it was destroyed before it had a chance to be armed and used but I was working on the icon for something to do

CANT z.506

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

Here's on you won't see as it was destroyed before it had a chance to be armed and used but I was working on the icon for something to do

CANT z.506

I love it You even cared about asymetrical chequers

Anyway, Kolhooven and CR 714 were very niche fighters and rather weren't used against ground targets. If we'd like to add an interesting aircraft, than maybe LN 411?... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loire-Nieuport_LN.401

[blazejos]

Just found an missing photo for Romanian OOB

RWD-14b "Czapla" polish STOL observation aircraft with folded wings


RWD-14b in Polish service



Article about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWD-14_Czapla


Poland have around 80 of them after 1939 2 were captured by Soviets in Wilno, small number by Germans both sides were not interested and never used them even for testing probably they were scraped by Germans fate of this in Soviet hands in unknown. One interned in Latvia than to Soviets after 1940. One interned by Hungary and used by them


Between 14 to 17 interned in Romania. In April 1943 was mentioned that they have still 14 of them in service. here is source https://dobroni.pl/artykul/rwd-14-czapla/565021

They have no Bomb racks but each of them was equipped in radio device and two MG one 7,92 mm Vickers F in observation cabin for self-defence. And 7,92 mm PWU wz.33 which shots through engine and propeller for attacking other aircraft's or strafing in pilots disposition.

Icons are already done and inside game shp from about 10 years for polish version and Romania green and brown-green camo with yellow crosses. What is missing that is Czapla with Romanian roundels used before April 1941. What is nice that if we have striking version of Czapla on battlefield which will use this one MG in pilots hands similarly too slow German observation craft which now are also in role of ersatz battlefield support.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by blazejos

Just found an missing photo for Romanian OOB

Thanks...... Now entered

Originally Posted by blazejos

What is missing that is Czapla with Romanian roundels used before April 1941.

Now done

[blazejos]

I'm late for few hours but also worked RWD-14b "Czapla" (Heron). Romanian with roundels is already done faster by you Don thanks I'm slower but there are all posible camo's for that aircraft.

Here parked on Sola AF airbase map
- Romanian before 1941 the same which was done by you earlier
- Hungarian they have only one but camo is intresting and propably they use this aircraft in army
- German captured they never even tested them but have a few.
- One of the three capured by Soviets
- And premiere for SPWW2 one Czapla which was interned in Latvia and used by their AF until repainted with red stars .

There is this story

Just as addon other polish observation aircraft used by Romanians. In 1939 17 of this aircrafts were interned in Romania and included in their AF http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/o/235/12/0. One example was in hands of Soviets one in Hungary and one captured by Slovakia. Propably none of them use this antique aircraft except Romanians.



Small improvment Lublin in both version R.XIIIG hydro & R.XIIID has capacity 6 bombs 12,5kg insdead 4 like is now in OOB. And has only vikers MG in observation cabin. Where I found this? This is other intresting story about exceptional bombing raid on Free city of Danzig in the day when was incorporated to Third Reich.

I just read about an action done by lone polish R.XIIIG hydro
in 7th September 1939 late evening. His mision was bombing BB Schleswig-Holstein near Westerplatte but when he arrived fighting were finished and batleship already gone in darkness as rest of the city. Westerpllate fall during that day but Lublin crew don't know about this. So they flight over dark streets of Danzig old town and by blind luck or rather by torches lights and loud military music suprised german NSDAP victory parade.
In memories of the crew is mentioned that they relase all 6 small bombs inside happy crowd with flags and torches and use MG from the rear to diperase them.
The link to whole story google translated from polish
https://translate.google.pl/translat...tnicze-Gdanska

[Pibwl]

Does speed of spotter planes matter?... Accidentally, while checking the Czapla, which was somehow faster than basic Polish spotter Lublin R.XIII, I noticed, that most spotters in the game have speed=1, regardless of their real speed, only few are faster, and Hs 126 is an exception with speed 4 - while not being the fastest plane.

(BTW: Polish 618 LWS Czapla was in fact known mostly as RWD-14 Czapla, as Blazejos mentioned - LWS was only a manufacturer of RWD design)

Here is a quick list that I made, with max speed in km/h (the values are taken from Internet pages and they may vary, but they're enough to give a hint). Cruise speeds, which might be more important, were usually lower by 20-40 km/h in speeds below 200, 40-60 km/h in speeds around 300, and 100-200 km/h in speeds above 500 km/h.

Germany
186 - Fieseler Storch - 175 - 1
187 - Fw 189 Uhu - 374 - 2
410 - He 46 - 257 - 1
589 - Arado Ar-196 - 320 - 3
782 - Hs 126 - 356 - 4

USA:
121 L4 Grasshopper - 140 - 1
360 - Curtiss P-6 - 311 - 1
361 - Curtiss A-12 - 284 - 1
362 - Boeing P-26 - 377 - 1
660 - Douglas O-2 - 216 - 3

USMC
090 - Vought OS2U - 292 - 1
095 - Piper NE-I - <200 - 1
135 - Curtiss P-6 - 311 - 1
136 - Boeing P-26 - 377 - 1
283 - Curtiss Seahawk - 504 - 1
319 - F3F-2 Littlecat - 425 - 1
321 - Douglas OD-l - 216 - 3

UK
114 - Auster Mk.IV - 209 - 1
148 - Lysander - 341 - 1
340 - Hawker Hart - 298 - 3

France
046 - Potez 63.11 - 425 - 3
141 - Auster Mk IV - 209 - 1
231 - L3 Grasshopper - <200 - 1
232 - Potez 25 - 208 - 1
236 - Breguet 19 - 230 - 2
565 - Potez 39 - 249 - 2
566 - Breguet 270 - 236 - 2
567 - ANF Mureaux 110 - 320 - 3

Poland
097 - Auster Mk.IV - 209 - 1
601 - PWS-26 - 201 - 1
603 - Lublin R-XIIIA - 177 - 1
604 - Lublin R-XIIID - 185 - 1
605 - Lublin R-XIIIG - 175 - 1
616 - RWD-8 - 175 - 1
617 - PZL L-2 - 183 - 1
618 - LWS Czapla - 247 - 1
619 - LWS-3 Mewa - 360 - 1
626 - Potez XXV A2 - 208 - 1

Japan ...here we have quick ones:
114 - Mitsubishi F1M - 365 - 4
210 - Aichi D1A - 309 - 3
211 - Aichi E13A1 - 375 - 3
212 - Kokusai Ki-76 - 178 - 2
213 - Yokosuka D4Y1-C - 545 - 6
217 - Nakajima Type91 - 300 - 3
642 - Yokosuka E14Y - 246 - 2
644 - Mitsubishi Ki46 - 604 - 6
645 - Mitsubishi 2MR - 204 - 2
647 - Kawanishi E7K - 276 - 3
648 - Nakajima C6N - 610 - 6
649 - Seversky A8V-1 - 316 - 6

If it's useful, I can check the rest. I can also write down cruise speeds.

Provisionally, I'd suggest speed:
- 1 for aircraft <210 km/h (including Auster, Potez 25 etc with cruise speeds well below 200 km/h)
- 2 for 210-300 km/h
- 3 for 300-400 km/h
- 4 for >400 km/h
I don't think, that any spotter flies much faster performing spotting.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Does speed of spotter planes matter?...

MOBHAck help

MOVEMENT - SPEED OF UNITS

Fighter-bomber and level bomber Aircraft Speed: 1 pt of Speed for every 100 km/h (round up past 50)


Spotter Plane/UAV speed is equal to their normal air speed as calculated for fighter-bombers and bombers. The higher the number the wider the circle the Spotter Plane will fly.

Most are one because most fly under 150km/h and keep in mind, aircraft do not have to fly at their max rated combat speed to fly a spotting mission.


....and we found if the spotter planes fly too fast, then the circle gets too wide and they slide off the map so there is code that limits speed and circle diameter built into the game code- so it matters not one little bit if one has 6 speed....... the game will not fly them at that speed . 3 is the max


The speeds they have work well enough.

[blazejos]

RWD-8

Most numerous of polish small aircraft's, build in 600 number for civilian areo-clubs and for army as trainer, liaison and many other duties. Was also last aircraft's on polish sky used in October 1939 by unit SGO Polesie in their fights against German and Soviets. In this last battles used not only as observation but also as ersatz support with hand-grenades throw by second pilot like in early days of WWI.




Here are

- Latvian - 40 of them escape in 1939 were used there and then captured by soviets
-Czechoslovakian small number sold in 1937 there
- Polish gray trainer used as ersatz spotter in 1939
- SP-BHX typical polish civilian
- Nationalist Spain small number sold to gen. Franco army
- SP-BLL polish civilian from areoclub mobilised in 1939
- Soviet small number captured in Poland 1939 then in 1940 captured from
Latvia
- VQ-PAK two used by Hagana as liaison in fight with Palestinians since 1938 destroyed before creation of IAF
- captured German probably used as trainers they have small number of them
- Romanians escaped from Poland 1939 also with roundels before April 1941 used as a trainers and probably liaisons. They have 57 pieces
- Hungarians have 2 pieces which escaped in 1939 used as a liaisons.

[blazejos]

In theme of AOP aircraft's

RWD-13
Probably most successfully polish small aircraft. I add also medical evacuation version RWD-13S.

- Polish military army has no RWD-13 in inventory but mobilised them from areoclubs in September 1939

- Polish ambulance version RWD-13S as was used in 1939 such icon
can be usefully in scenario building representing airfields 1939 together with civilian red rwd-13

Then most of this aircraft's escapes to Romania and Latvia. In 1940 Latvia ocupied by USSR so the were captured by soviets. Romania has around 30 RWD-13 and use them on eastern front in Escadrila albă
rest is the history described in books and even movie from 1944

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Squadron_(Romania)
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escadrila_Alb%C4%83



Here great documentary movie with English subtitles
https://armed.mapn.ro/escadrila-alba-2625-25

and here link to IMDB
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035373/


Yugoslavia buy license and produced their own version Rogozarski RVD-13 also in Medical evacuation variant icon already there. Only one survived invasion on Yugoslavia and was letter used by Croatians,

One aircraft escaped from Hel Peninsula to Sweden and were used in army until 1953 and one to Estonia probably letter in Soviet hands.

20 sold to Gen. Franco and used there in Civil war on Nationalist side as AOP aircraft. There was still used even after 1945.

Germans captured some small number intact and used them as liaisons aircraft.

One was a wedding gift from Poland to Shah of Persia and were used by Iranian air force until 1945

Eight were sold to Brazilian army in 1937 and one is still there in museum.

Hagana buy 2 of them in 1937 and used together with RWD-8 as patrol and liaison aircraft they survived until 1947 and were used in Israel war of independence. Probably first aircraft's of IAF.

Soviets have some number of this aircraft's captured in Poland, Latvia and Estonia but is unknown how they used them.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by blazejos

I just read about an action done by lone polish R.XIIIG hydro
in 7th September 1939 late evening. His mision was bombing BB Schleswig-Holstein near Westerplatte but when he arrived fighting were finished and batleship already gone in darkness as rest of the city. Westerpllate fall during that day but Lublin crew don't know about this. So they flight over dark streets of Danzig old town and by blind luck or rather by torches lights and loud military music suprised german NSDAP victory parade.
In memories of the crew is mentioned that they relase all 6 small bombs inside happy crowd with flags and torches and use MG from the rear to diperase them.

By the way, it would have been an terror bombing against civilians (like the ones performed by the Germans against Wieluń, Warsaw and then British cities, and then by the Western allies...) - but Polish historian Andrzej Olejko indicated slight doubts in 2018, that there are no signs of such attack in German sources - while it might have been used for propaganda...