Soviet OOB11 - 2020

[DRG]

It's OK to present new found info but at least get the info on what's there now right. Neither aircraft have 25 100 kg bombs.

Also if **I** can find corroborating evidence the IL-4 was used in combat earlier than 2/42 then I will change it but that remains to be seen

https://vvsairwar.com/2016/11/02/the...ilyushin-il-4/

Immediately following the German invasion in June of 1941, the DB-3 was the only twin-engine bomber that the Soviets had in their arsenal....... In 1941-1942, the Ilyushin Design Bureau set about radically redesigning the airframe, wings, and fuel system of the outdated bomber. Initially marked for designation as DB-3F (Forsirovannyi or “boosted”), the changes made to the bomber of the 1930s were so significant that in March of 1942, the outcome of the DB-3’s transformation was an entirely new aircraft: the Ilyushin Il-4.

it does seem that whenever you find "new" info that contradicts what we have then what you found becomes the "correct" data we need to change our data to match..... do YOU have any other source that supports that new one you are quoting ?

I will make a note to further investigate the bomb load claims but so much of what we are hearing lately from people amounts to making slight adjustment to the way the chairs are set up at a banquet. The max load for those aircraft is 2500 kg over short distances and any tactical bombing on the easter front would be done over "short" distances so what we have is the correct weight just not in the correct combinations none of which have any effect on actual game play. That said I will see what I can dig up as well but this game was not intended to be ENDLESSLY tweaked for over two DECADES and the changes to weapons can have knock off effects to scenarios ( the number of bombs can change or the weight but the probems start when the number of weapon slots used is reduced )all of which need to be checked so this could conceiveably be FAR more work than you may think....that said I think I have a solution that will work for the 4 weapon slots used by the DB-3....5X 100kg + 5X 100kg + 2X 250 kg + 1X 500kg == 2000 kg and uses 13 hardpoints. The DB-4 will use 5X 100kg + 5X 100kg + 3X 500kg but PLEASE understand this endless nitpicking is GETTING OLD

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

It's OK to present new found info but at least get the info on what's there now right. Neither aircraft have 25 100 kg bombs.

Sorry, I made an error in multiplication - it's 20x100 kg.
Sources dealing with bombs in detail are unfortunately rare and incomplete - I've found an info about 10 internal and 3 external pods in 2004 Il-4 book from Voyna v vozduhie series, and about 14x100 kg variant in Kotelnikov Il-4. Vozdushnye kreysera Stalina. I'm attaching a cross-section from the second book. I've been researching Il-4 for Polish Wikipedia purpose for last month, hence my interest in that plane in particular

Also if **I** can find corroborating evidence the IL-4 was used in combat earlier than 2/42 then I will change it but that remains to be seen

https://vvsairwar.com/2016/11/02/the...ilyushin-il-4/

The quoted page is just wrong. Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4 presents correct version, quoting references, that DB-3F entered production in 1940 and only in 3/42 it was renamed as Il-4. However, the problem with DB-3F / Il-4 entrance date is in fact secondary. The point is, that ordinary DB-3 carried the same payload, but maybe we don't need the aircraft with bigger bombs before 1942.

Besides, the statement, that "Immediately following the German invasion in June of 1941, the DB-3 was the only twin-engine bomber that the Soviets had in their arsenal" is wrong, because there were lighter Pe-2 and Yak-2 in service already, not mentioning SB and its later variant Ar-2... It might be accurate concerning long range bombers, but Er-2 entered service just in June 1941 and obtained readiness in August.

...that said I think I have a solution that will work for the 4 weapon slots used by the DB-3....5X 100kg + 5X 100kg + 2X 250 kg + 1X 500kg == 2000 kg and uses 13 hardpoints. The DB-4 will use 5X 100kg + 5X 100kg + 3X 500kg but PLEASE understand this endless nitpicking is GETTING OLD

Fair enough

Adding 1000 kg bomb and two 250 kg might make too devastating effect on the first hex.

Then we don't need heavier variant before 1942, and we can stick with these two planes with modified loads.