I'd rather have MM work on AI as opposed to TCP/IP

[Master Belisarius]

I go for the AI too... And I don't care if the AI cheat or not: I only want a challenging game.

I have played Moo2 Online, and I was unable to finish ONE multiplayer game! (I have played near of 10, and always somebody lost the connection, or somebody have not intentions to continue the game, or simply was very boring wait during 20 minutes per every player, to do your own moves).

But playing Moo2 against the AI, I have finished hunderd of games... Also, depending of your race and your luck, the Impossible Level could be really very challenging.

[igoblin]

I would have to disagree, TCP/IP would be great for SE4 because unlike Master of Orion 2 it has a simultaneous mode. This way everybody takes their turns at the same time so the only waiting would be if someone takes exceptionally long for their turn. You can also play with more than 2 people in simultaneous unlike turn based games.
I will probably still do play by email though because its hard to schedule times for everyone to play together. I haven't tried PBEM since the demo, I hope the bugs were fixed.
-igoblin

[Daynarr]

quote:

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Originally posted by igoblin:
I would have to disagree, TCP/IP would be great for SE4 because unlike Master of Orion 2 it has a simultaneous mode. This way everybody takes their turns at the same time so the only waiting would be if someone takes exceptionally long for their turn. You can also play with more than 2 people in simultaneous unlike turn based games.
I will probably still do play by email though because its hard to schedule times for everyone to play together. I haven't tried PBEM since the demo, I hope the bugs were fixed.
-igoblin

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IIRC MOO2 had ONLY simultaneous mode. You would give orders and when you click end turn button, they would be carried out, just like SE4 simultaneous mode. I have played several games of MOO2 on Heat.net but they would never be finished. It would just get too long and boring to wait for all of the players to finish your turns (they would get really long if a player had some large tactical combat). That is a problem with turn-based games, AFAIK.
However, I do think that SE4 should have TCP/IP multiplayer, but I believe that the majority of players will play it SE4 in singleplayer or hotseat, so AI should be addressed first. Personally, I don't have any preference, as I like to play both multi and single player games, so I would vote for both.

[dmm]

My $0.02: First improve the AI.

Selfish reason: If I'm going to play humans, it will be members of my own family, and for that I can use hot-seat. So I personally don't care about TCP/IP.

Unselfish reason: Improved AI will also improve TCP/IP games (and hotseat games, and PBEM games), unless you're going to play with only human players. No, even then, it helps, because strategic combat will be better. So improved AI benefits everyone, whereas putting in TCP/IP only benefits one segment of the market.

[Londo]

Consider me a tcp/ip voter. I love the challenge that only a human opponent can provide. For my own use, I can only do hotseat with a friend of mine one day a week, but I could do tcp/ip daily and therefor get more bang for my buck with this game. IMO, improving the AI is a gradual process that we modders can participate in along with MM. Tcp/ip is something we can not do on our own, and it represents a revolutionary step as far as game mechanics. I am certain that it will be difficult to code, but it will be well worth it based upon the demand that I have seen for it on this site.

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Vir! You have made a mess of this post once again, now give me a large cup of brivari so that I may begin to forget the bad times and remember the glory of the great Centauri Republic.

[Socialist]

Lets put it another way, people who use Email
spend much more time to finish games..almost rediculous to set up a game and play it for a year (patchs themselves will goof up games with so much time spent)

With tcp..hardcore..and i mean hardcore wargamers.in smaller Groups could actually play and save. There are ways of allowing people to look around while others do their turn and do it right. AOE had some workablity in that area. resonable games..
mid level galaxy 60-70 systems or so..we all know huge 200+ would be rediculous. even solo i dont do anything that big..100 systms is huge in my opinion. The point being, people would play each other and can get back to one another. Wont take long to pick out the losers who dont come back and finish what they started. Keeping games at 4 or so players is workable..and reasonable..finish working on the AI, im not against that. What does bother me is if they dont make a
good "Stable" tcp ip connections..turn based game work great in TCP IP, just needs a little time and effort and most will be satisfied.


sorry but playing a AI is meaningless long term, they are just "extras" to move aside ...variables in the mix..in between Humans.

An AI doesnt care if it wins or loses.



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Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Voidhawk]

Just to elaborate a little on what dmm touched on: I think he's very correct.

If you think about it, coordinating an ongoing TCP game with 2 or 3 people shouldn't be a problem. Coordinating a TCP game with 5 or more people could get hairy. Add even more players and the problems increase exponentially.

"Well, so-and-so can spare an hour saturday between 8 and 11, but what's-his-name has to take his wife out. Meanwhile who's-his-face has a wedding to attend sunday, so he can't make it saturday after 10. Etc., etc..." Schedule problems will also be compounded further by different time zones.

With this in mind, it seems that the most enjoyable TCP games will be played with around 3 or 4 people. And a large quadrant with only 3 players could get... well, boring quickly. Now, fill the remaining slots with a few of the current Version AI's and you've got basically just a few minor hindrances until you can get to one of the other human players. Fill the empty slots with a few good, solid AI's and the game would really take on some color. It would be really cool to have to seek out alliances with your human buddies in order to survive a vicious AI onslaught. I guess you could accomplish this easily enough with the current AI by using Team Mode, but then diplomacy with the AI would be rendered useless.

Then again, all of this is pure speculation as we have yet to see how well TCP would work. So maybe I'd like to see the TCP first so we can start seeing how it plays. Honestly, I started writing this as an argument to improve the AI first, but now I find that I'm completely torn on the issue.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time with this absurd post of mine hehe ...