Proportions mod: So confusing!

[Fyron]

Ok, then that would not be a good solution, if the organics rate is lowered so much that a SYS can't even build a BSY in a reasonable amount of time. What about building up WP defenses? BSYs are necessary there, to get replenishable stores of units and such.

[ October 22, 2002, 19:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Suicide Junkie]

If you were to require the full-rate BSY to have a whole lot of crew quarters, it would look better regarding its ability to build fully crewed ships

And don't forget the fact that you could still quickly build a spaceyard that makes units and defenses as fast as normal.

Fyron: You can still build a defense base quickly, you just can't build a base with a full-ability spaceyard.

[Fyron]

If you were to require the full-rate BSY to have a whole lot of crew quarters, it would look better regarding its ability to build fully crewed ships

Too bad you can't make a component require crew quarters. That would have to be required by the base hull, which would make defense bases require tons of crew too.

And don't forget the fact that you could still quickly build a spaceyard that makes units and defenses as fast as normal.

That isn't the point. And it screws over Organic races, whos units tend to require lots of organics.

Fyron: You can still build a defense base quickly, you just can't build a base with a full-ability spaceyard.

You need BSYs there too, not just a few defense bases. And you and Geo are talking about 2 entirely separate systems, so arguements agaisnt one may not apply as well against the other.

[geoschmo]

SJ Said: And don't forget the fact that you could still quickly build a spaceyard that makes units and defenses as fast as normal.

Fyron Said:That isn't the point. And it screws over Organic races, whos units tend to require lots of organics.

Wrong. Well wrong with my idea, maybe right with SJ's. Even with Organic races the units cost four or five times as much in minerals as they do organics. So you can lower the organic build rate significantly and not decrease the rate of unit construction a bit.

SJ Said: You can still build a defense base quickly, you just can't build a base with a full-ability spaceyard.

Fyron Said:You need BSYs there too, not just a few defense bases. And you and Geo are talking about 2 entirely separate systems, so arguements agaisnt one may not apply as well against the other.

Maybe with SJ's idea you are right here too. With mine you don't need BSYs at all, cause your SYS's can build the units at the same rate. But if you want BSY's you can build them, they just take longer. This could be adjusted so that the only things that take any longer to build than they do now is colony ships and BSY's. And those two would only take longer to build when being constructed by a SYS.

Actually my suggestion is the same as SJ's. The only difference is he is saying take out the organic rate completely, I am saying just reduce it, and increase the organic cost of the colony comp and BSY comp.

EDIT: It would make building a spherworld take longer, but anyone trying that in Proportions is just sick anyway.

Geoschmo

[ October 22, 2002, 23:37: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Fyron]

My organic WPs usually cost many more orgs than mins, actually.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
My organic WPs usually cost many more orgs than mins, actually.

That may be true, but they aren't much good for defending warp points now are they?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by PvK:
Yes, his point that tech in SE4 is far ahead of our 2002 tech is of course valid. Again, it's a matter of proportions. He thinks the starting tech is so high as to be able to hand-wave away many problems. Infinite energy with no specialized fuel, the ability to survive in any environment, and the ability to manufacture anything immediately from raw materials, without any specialized research and design, all seem to be starting techs, as far as his point of view, while in my case, I see them as either at the end of the SE4 tech tree, or way above the entire tech tree.

All you need for essentially infinite energy with no fuel problems is a net gain deuterium fusion reactor. The amount of D2 available in the Oceans is so massive that it would easily Last for longer than we've been recording our history.

One problem I have with imagining such high basic abilities, is that with those abilities, the raw materials and empty space provided by alien planets seem to me like they wouldn't be particularly helpful. The raw materials of a single planet would probably be more than enough to provide for all the needs of such an advanced techology. The main advantages of spreading out would be dispersion and maneuver, not providing "used up resources" or "room to study".

Exponential growth requires exponential room. Population growth is exponential.