newest beta patch?

[Stone Mill]

I am playing in 2 games now where the primary reason I was instrumental in beating the Talisman was through the massive deployment of organic armor.

In the other it is the AS.

This patch reduces the edge of some "inconsistencies" (i.e. organic armor, AS), but in the wake of that move, the Talsiman and PPB become, in effect, even more powerful.

The massively glaring inconsisitency and unbalance of PPB remains unaddressed. That is the obvious gripe of a significant portion of SEIV game players.

How did "fixing" organic armor rank higher than levelling out PPBs?

This is a more than a patch... it does instigate an indirect upset to game balance.

[dumbluck]

Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type.

What about Bases??? Shouldn't they be vulnerable, too? And maybe even fighters???

EDIT: Well, maybe not fighters. How would you board a fighter???

3. Fixed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will fail against a ship with a Master Computer (regardless if that component is damaged or not).

I agree this needed done, but now there is now counter or disadvantage for using the MC (other than the high cost, which can be overcome...). Perhaps if the MC did NOT gain from experience? Then it would be a good counter for the AS, but would be inferior to vessels with a normal weapon load...

Or perhaps a MC equiped vessel would have a lower max experience level. For example, if you can train crews to do something (Ship/Fleet training facilities, default max 20%), surely you can program your MC with the same training. However, from 20% to 50% is just experience learned in the field, and perhaps the MC wouldn't be able to expand it's own programming....

7. Fixed - Organic Armor was pre-regenerating itself before damage occurred in combat.

. . .

5. Fixed - Ships with regnerating armor will regnerate all of their armor at the end of combat.

This I like. One question, though: Will a ship with no undamaged OA still repair it all after combat?

This also has one downside. In turn based games, my OA equiped ships enter combat against yours, kill a few ships, then combat ends and all damaged armor regens. Then my fleet expends another movement point to enter combat again. Your ships are still partially damaged (unless you have OA too! ), whilst mine have had some free repair done in the space of a few days....

3. Fixed - The result of a Communication interception intelligence project will be displayed with arrows in the log window.

Huh?

6. Fixed - During a Deconstruct & Analyze, you would sometimes receive duplicate techs if a component and the vehicle size were new to you.

This also is excellent, and needed to be done.

[ October 12, 2002, 07:31: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

[Phoenix-D]

"2. Changed - "Crew ConVersion" damage type will only work against ships regardless of the target type."

Um, this is just franky ridiclous. If you want the AS to only affect ships in SE4..only let it target ships. There is no reason to cripple modding like that.

Phoenix-D

[Q]

Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd:
In patch 1.78 he removed the ability of "damage engines only, skips shields", now he plans to remove the ability of the AS to work against ships/bases with destroyed master computer and the possibility to target units (something I never used).
I understand people who think that this might be more realistic or balanced, however don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
I strongly ask all people with some influence on MM: ask him to make such changes only as an option or in a way that can be modded back and not in an irreversible way.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ October 12, 2002, 09:08: Message edited by: Q ]

[dumbluck]

I agree with Q. It is good that he is adressing issues, but bad that he is addressing them by reducing the moddable features....

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Q:
Well I am glad that I am not completely alone with my opinion!
My objection to the changes MM makes since the Last patch is a general one:
MM starts to remove things from SE which in my opinion is absurd

I agree

don't you understand that this also reduces the complexity and variety of the game?
.

I noticed this, and there appears to be no end to what people seem to need to make the game balanced to perfection. Somethings up here. And IMO people aren't being completely honest with me on this subject ...

So, I am in the middle of my first PBW game. There are psychic races and religious races around me. But combat hasn't broken out yet.

WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER PBW GAMES

ahem sorry for shouting there guys cough cough hurt myself

Are some people dominating the game with their special racial choices? Are talisman mounted null space and polaron beams unstoppable. Some people say no, some people have to endlessly mod the rules in the need for perfect balance, and the debate rages on an on in this forum. Always friendly, but endless in frequency. All we get are hints, someone wants to alter the phased shield arrival, someone wants a Desecrater-class weapon to take out the talisman. The AS cascade has to be stopped.

People aren't being square with me on why these are needed. Change the names and post anonomusly if you feel like it.

In my PBW game, I'm in second to Last place. I have very few planets, only my home system rock planets and maybe 5 or 6 breathables elsewhere. Everyone else has traded colonization techs, so they're everywhere. If I lose, it will be my fault, I'll try to do better next time.

[Soapbox mode][SB]
If you get spanked by a newbie munckin, well, maybe new tactics on your part are what's needed. Not a hardcode change
[/SB][/Soapbox mode]

[ October 12, 2002, 18:31: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
People aren't being square with me on why these are needed. Change the names and post anonomusly if you feel like it.

Either I don't quite get what you really want to say or are you really thinking its a conspiracy against you?

Regarding OA:
I think it’s a good change. There is really no sense in your ship armor growing before it is even in combat. You don’t have a cancer ship with unlimited growth.

Regarding the Intel project:
When you intercepted a message, the game would only display the first few lines as you couldn’t scroll the message like you can when sending normal Messages.

Regarding the AS:
I can see Q’s point. However IMHO, reduced to the question if tuning down the AS is a good thing, it is. Even the PPB has a “counter”, phased shields. It remains a strong weapon but it won’t skip shields. Against the AS there is no defense as even the MC cannot protect you. Combine this with a Talisman and no one can stop you. BTW, we are discussing tuning the Talisman, too (know I have opened up a can of worms, don’t I? ). The best idea in this regard IMHO is at the moment making the Talisman hit only every X turns, rendering it useless the other y turns until “recharged”. We’ll see what MM thinks of this.