MA Eriu

[bbz]

size 4+ tramplers dont work Ask my friend that Used earth elementals against 25+ defence guys.
MInd burn is a good point actually that is the only reliable way (sort off hard to pull off against 17 MR but might work).(and even then its hard if he adds the amulets but I guess early on might work).
Mind hunt was the non battlefield way to kill them I guess.
Horrors will die quicker than they can kill/route the commander.
Vine arrow try hitting through storm/ mist (and they have arrow fend(not sure if it stops the vine arrow have to check ).
Earth meld spam has range issues as well. 25 range is not reliable.

I agree abut the fear point but not call horror maybe something like massed fear generating effects. Sidhe lords do have low moral I guess. (kind off unthematic since they are supposed to be brave heroes and poets but I guess they rely mostly on the poet part)

So basically if you have no astral against them you are screwed. Blood has life for a life but you can always always assume there is a screen of PD when he is defending.(also not sure if Mistform negates the damage)

[Shardphoenix]

Sidhe lords do have low moral I guess

They have Song of Bravery AND Sermon of Courage.

size 4+ tramplers dont work Ask my friend that Used earth elementals against 25+ defence guys.

Dunno, indie elephants trampled water-blessed Lords without too much trouble. He just needs more tramplers, I guess.
Also, try summoning imps. They interrupt buff cycle and swarm nicely (13 MR helps too).

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

Dunno, indie elephants trampled water-blessed Lords without too much trouble. He just needs more tramplers, I guess.
Also, try summoning imps. They interrupt buff cycle and swarm nicely (13 MR helps too).

I'll check and tell you the results.

Edit:
5 sidhe lords(no Items just bless) vs 16 elephants + PD = 2 elephants killed 5 sidhe lords dead. So they work.
If you add in mistform though.(alt 3 should be your first reseach goal) 16 elephants dead and 0 sidhe lords (no items again)

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by bbz

first off you don't need lanterns or mentors you have rectuit everywhere mages with 6 research for 220 gold(that is 7 research with magic 1 wich everyone takes anyways)

Keep in mind this isn't good research. You could buy two indie shaman for the same cost (they are also sacred) that would yield 8 RP with magic 1.

Originally Posted by bbz

I was just thinking Elemental Armour that and elemenatl fortitude gives you protection from 3 of the spells. You can forge one for one of your lords to act as a decoy at the front casting spells(most evocations have limited range) so you have your mages at the back cast elemental fortitude and then after the enemies script ends, attack.
I have to try the major earth bless but i'm not sure if you need it. with reinvig 2 you net 1 fatigue from an action. So thats not too much.

If you can find indie mages to forge the elemental armor or trade for it. And unless you can work out a deal with Ulm or Van it won't have a forge discount. Also, it has high encumbrance which will add to your fatigue from buffing. You want your reinvig to be higher than your encumbrance to recover from buffing fatigue unless you plan on having additional mages along to cast soothing song.

Originally Posted by bbz

I don't think that you need the regeneration if anything goes through mistform strong enough to pop it then the lord is dead anyways. (regen won't help) And there aren't many chaff units that can hit through 29 defence consistently especially if you are clearing 1-2 squares per turn and , they won't be able to surround you Also the aoe effect keeps 3 units in chains so that is 3 less units to warry about. So if you get 12 units around you(unlikely) then you might get hit from 9 of them 9x2 -18 defence (and keep in mind your thugs are size 3 so you can have 2 at the same square so the defence reduction is only -9 thats still 20 defence and there arent many chaff units that go through that and even if they do you have to be hit 14 times. I agree that masses of markatas might work havent tried that(aswell as other size 1 units) for size 2 units I doubt it.

Even if mistform doesn't pop you'll still take 1 HP of damage from each hit. Regen keeps those from adding up and eventually killing you.

Also, I think focusing on chaff and low quality troops is not optimal - use high quality troops and magic to kill glamoured thugs. Although skelly spam works quite well since you just tie up the thug long enough for him to autoroute.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Keep in mind this isn't good research. You could buy two indie shaman for the same cost (they are also sacred) that would yield 8 RP with magic 1.


If you can find indie mages to forge the elemental armor or trade for it. And unless you can work out a deal with Ulm or Van it won't have a forge discount. Also, it has high encumbrance which will add to your fatigue from buffing. You want your reinvig to be higher than your encumbrance to recover from buffing fatigue unless you plan on having additional mages along to cast soothing song.

Well I guess I am just used to nations with bad research so 7 for 220 gold seemed good ish. its quite good early game to start your research but later on as you said there are more efficient ways.

About soothing song yea you can use it to drop fatigue at the last round or as you said have other mages. Also for some reason if you put elemental armour on sidhe lord their mele encumbrance doesnt change it remains 3 (which sounds like a bug)(it does make their spell casting fatigue 11 though).
But I agree its gonna be a pain to get one but thats why I said just use one thug with full resistance at the front as a decoy. The rest will have only 50% but the opponents mages will be fatigued from casting spells at the close target so you won't get hit too much and mistform will negate the first hit anyways.


Edit: I saw your comment in the CBM thread, thats my thinking aswell and that was the whole/ main point of the thread I don't like things that don't have counter(always hits) So I guess thats enough for this. I'd agree that otherwise Eriu is fine ish as a strong mid game nation.

P.s I was playing around trying to cast mists of the hidden path and then set many N3 mages on attack/ song of power(with the Idea of turning all your enemies into halks)
Also I think that spell should have some sort of counter even if its hard to cast properly(be it MR or any other way to resist the spell)

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by bbz

I will take your word for that. The thing is my experience is from a duel I had (and playing another one now) and they seemed brutally powerful. Its quite dufferent for a proper MP game so I believe you that thugging is not a game winning strategy. But wuldnt having great anti-thughs and at the same time thugs work for a real army?

I also understand about attack move mages but in a normal battle you cannot do that because they will get chopped by the normal units.
I also agree about blood that can kill off eriu, and mind hunt.

My point also was that having glamoured units you are most likely to be the defender(since you will be taking lightly defended provinces) and then defending them when it feels safe enough. being the defender + PD counters the fly in strategy.

Ok, I see. My response was focused on countering raiding thugs not thug backed armies. As I mentioned, I think Eriu now has a very strong midgame and can form powerful armies. Countering that will depend on the situation. What nation were you playing? It might be easier to come up with suggestions if we know that (if you want to mess up glamoured thugs Mictlan with a death bless should do the job nicely).

Originally Posted by bbz

About soothing song yea you can use it to drop fatigue at the last round or as you said have other mages. Also for some reason if you put elemental armour on sidhe lord their mele encumbrance doesnt change it remains 3 (which sounds like a bug)(it does make their spell casting fatigue 11 though).

No, that's because they're mounted. The armor won't increase their melee encumbrance but like you said it will increase their spellcasting encumbrance, which means their fatigue will be higher post-buff and will increase their chances of receiving a critical hit.

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by bbz

About soothing song yea you can use it to drop fatigue at the last round or as you said have other mages. Also for some reason if you put elemental armour on sidhe lord their mele encumbrance doesnt change it remains 3 (which sounds like a bug)(it does make their spell casting fatigue 11 though).
But I agree its gonna be a pain to get one but thats why I said just use one thug with full resistance at the front as a decoy. The rest will have only 50% but the opponents mages will be fatigued from casting spells at the close target so you won't get hit too much and mistform will negate the first hit anyways.

1) Soothing Song costs more fatigue than it relieves. It works if you have a bunch of guys spamming overlapping Songs, or if you don't care about the fatigue of the guy casting it, ie an indy shaman who's not going to be fighting. The more you bunch up to take advantage of that though, the more likely the enemy spell casting AI will decide it's a great target to drop a thunderstrike on.

2) Spells can't really be decoyed like archers can. If your guy upfront is immune, the mages will switch to casting something else, like save or dies, or stellar cascades. There are also a good number of offensive spells with enough range to hit the back row from near the enemy front. This includes basics like thunderstrike and a bunch that have ranges that scale based on caster strength. Nether bolt and banefire among them, and you might have seen that LP on something awful where one player got his far back army hammered by Acid Rain. You can't do anything to protect against any of those either.

As I mentioned before, the main way to decoy mages is to present better targets, ie chaff. Except that's the last thing a thug army needs, since they will rout your thugs by dying.

Edit: I saw your comment in the CBM thread, thats my thinking aswell and that was the whole/ main point of the thread I don't like things that don't have counter(always hits) So I guess thats enough for this. I'd agree that otherwise Eriu is fine ish as a strong mid game nation.

Did you see my response to this on the last page?

P.s I was playing around trying to cast mists of the hidden path and then set many N3 mages on attack/ song of power(with the Idea of turning all your enemies into halks)
Also I think that spell should have some sort of counter even if its hard to cast properly(be it MR or any other way to resist the spell)

If you are suicide bombing Tuatha, it better not be counterable. That's a 390g cap only mage. Bean Sidhe can only get N2, and they'll lose any thisle mace you give them when they turn into a bird.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Shangrila00

As I mentioned before, the main way to decoy mages is to present better targets, ie chaff. Except that's the last thing a thug army needs, since they will rout your thugs by dying.

If you are suicide bombing Tuatha, it better not be counterable. That's a 390g cap only mage. Bean Sidhe can only get N2, and they'll lose any thisle mace you give them when they turn into a bird.

Ah sorry didnt know about that just because thunder bows did attack lightning immune targets and soul slay did target high MR guys. Well say size 6 units first.

Fair enogh about the suiciding Tautha but what if you are killing an SC with 20-30 gems worth of gear with a mage for 220 gold and 10 gem thisle mace? Or I guess that is situational and since it cannot be ensured can be countered with decoys.

Also yea ofc I read your comments.

[bbz]

I didnt know that mele fatigue doesnt increase when you are on a horse
I was thinking of how to stop them as Fomoria. Air doesnt work since they can easily get immunity. Morrigans scare the **** out of the thugs so I guess they work + wailing winds.
Otherwise about battle magic shadow blast didnt seem to be effective. Thugs niether.
Massed construction/bows worked allrighting unless sidhe lords buff with arrow fend.
Thugged Kings didnt work either. I guess if you give them high protection and set to cast hand of death might work. P.s Ghost grip might work as well. But I was wondering about army vs army situation.

[Shardphoenix]

shadow blast didnt seem to be effective

It`s bolt spell. It gets stopped by air shield. Try good old skellyspam instead.

I was thinking of how to stop them as Fomoria.

MA Fomoria? What am I reading?